Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-13.txt
Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu> Thu, 08 September 2011 21:04 UTC
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Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:06:02 +0200
From: Willy Tarreau <w@1wt.eu>
To: "Richard L. Barnes" <rbarnes@bbn.com>
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Cc: "hybi@ietf.org" <hybi@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-13.txt
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On Thu, Sep 08, 2011 at 10:57:54AM -0400, Richard L. Barnes wrote: > Keep in mind, though, that the server still has to *un-mask* the frames from the client, which has the same cost as masking. So you don't eliminate the performance burden on the server by removing s2c masking. Or, equivalently, the server gets a performance benefit if clients don't mask. It is expected that (like for HTTP), when masking performance matters, most of the traffic will be emitted by the servers. Being able to send a video using sendfile() is more important than saving the 100 CPU cycles needed to decode the request for that file. At the protocol level, there is no need for any relation between the direction and the choice of masking. This is purely a concern of the implementation. Basically if you're in a browser, you must mask outgoing frames to avoid being abused. If you're a public server, you must ensure that incoming frames are masked for the same reason. That might very well be a config option in some products so that this can be either disabled or changed in specific environments. There is no reason to make it forbidden at the protocol level to use or not use masking in either direction. The protocol consists in framed messages and frames may be masked. It's a lot easier if the frames decoders are always the sames, so in practice you won't gain anything by trying to enforce an asymetry. The cost of running the XOR is negligible, as was shown by measurements months ago. Even a not-so-modern desktop machine has no trouble XORing at 10 Gbps. In fact, I think that the reason why we're starting to see this mask/unmask discussion now is that implementations are progressively taking place and developers wonder whether they can get rid of something they think is useless so that it's even easier to write the code. Maybe the draft still lacks some explanations, maybe even some code examples (though I think that the masking/unmasking algo is clear enough). Maybe providing code examples which handle both masked and unmasked frames would reduce the number of questions, I don't know. At this stage, it would be nice if people would focus on how to make the draft more understandable for everyone instead of trying to restart a year of long debates with the questions that were discussed long ago. Regards, Willy
- Re: [hybi] what's next Peter Saint-Andre
- [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsocketpr… internet-drafts
- [hybi] what's next Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] what's next Julian Reschke
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] what's next Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [hybi] what's next Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [hybi] what's next Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [hybi] what's next Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [hybi] what's next Iñaki Baz Castillo
- Re: [hybi] what's next Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Sylvain Hellegouarch
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Sylvain Hellegouarch
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Sylvain Hellegouarch
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Len Holgate
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Tobias Oberstein
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Joel Martin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Tobias Oberstein
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Sylvain Hellegouarch
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Joel Martin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Joel Martin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Tobias Oberstein
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Tobias Oberstein
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… SM
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… John Tamplin
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Tobias Oberstein
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… SM
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Ian Fette (イアンフェッティ)
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Greg Wilkins
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Martin J. Dürst
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Takeshi Yoshino
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Willy Tarreau
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Richard L. Barnes
- Re: [hybi] I-D Action: draft-ietf-hybi-thewebsock… Bruce Atherton