Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity

Alexander Clemm <> Thu, 27 April 2017 02:00 UTC

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From: Alexander Clemm <>
To: Michael Menth <>, Dino Farinacci <>, "Liubingyang (Bryan)" <>
CC: Robert Moskowitz <>, "" <>
Thread-Topic: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 02:00:08 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
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Hi Michael,

For your example: yes, you can do what you describe.  Of course, you need to have the same metadata replicated for each identifier.  When the entity decides to use another identifier, its metadata needs to be copied as well.  When you change the metadata, you need to change it in all records.  And there may be more than one piece of metadata; for example, I may be an entity of a certain type.  With a flat identifier-only scheme, the data must be maintained redundantly.  

--- Alex

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Menth [] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 12:56 PM
To: Alexander Clemm <>om>; Dino Farinacci <>om>; Liubingyang (Bryan) <>
Cc: Robert Moskowitz <>om>;
Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity

Hi Alex,

can't a contract be represented by a contract identifier (cidX) to which several networking identifiers (nidn) are mapped?

nid0 -> cidX
nid1 -> cidX
nid2 -> cidX
cidX -> someProperty

This contract identifier may be mapped to some property yielding a kind of hierarchical mapping. What I want to say is, I don't see the gain of an identity concept in this example.

I ask again: what's the value of identities beyond authentication for registration purposes?



Am 26.04.2017 um 21:38 schrieb Alexander Clemm:
> Yes, I think we agree on the notion of identifier.  
> Of course, this is not just about identifier- but identity-enabled networking, so there is still that other aspect needing to be fleshed out. Re: Michael's question, authentication is one of its applications, but I think there are others, for example related to metadata (back to the earlier point of whether identity is a data record) - an example would be the "type" of endpoint which applies regardless whether one or many identifiers are being used.  Related to metadata, you could have policies that are applied based on identity (e.g. an entity with a paid contract), not based on which one of several identifiers an entity happens to use.   
> -- Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dino Farinacci []
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 10:26 AM
> To: Liubingyang (Bryan) <>
> Cc: Michael Menth <>de>; Alexander Clemm 
> <>om>; Robert Moskowitz 
> <>om>;
> Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
>> For example, (one of) the real reason we want identifiers is that we want something that does not change with topology locations to identify mobile communication end point, which functions that cannot be carried by IP addresses. Since (I believe) we all have consensus on this function, we can at least agree that identifier is topology-independent label that identifies a communication end point. 
> Exactly.
> So to extend the definition to be specific. The identifier is used for a host stack transport connection. Its the “thing” (the arguments) you pass to connect(), bind(), sendto(), etc, socket API calls. And what you “get back” from gethostbyname().
> Dino

Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth
University of Tuebingen
Faculty of Science
Department of Computer Science
Chair of Communication Networks
Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany
phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505
fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220