Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
Michael Menth <menth@uni-tuebingen.de> Fri, 14 April 2017 18:35 UTC
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To: Robert Moskowitz <rgm-ietf@htt-consult.com>, ideas@ietf.org
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From: Michael Menth <menth@uni-tuebingen.de>
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Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:34:53 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity
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Looks good to me. Michael Am 14.04.2017 um 20:26 schrieb Robert Moskowitz: > > > On 04/14/2017 02:45 AM, Michael Menth wrote: >> Hi Robert, hi all, >> >> thanks for your thought-provoking mail. Reading the definitions gave me >> the impression that identities can have very different properties >> depending on their domains. I feel the text is stimulating but too long >> for a definition. >> >> What about: >> >> An identity (Idy) is a distinguishable entity within its domain. >> >> An identifier (Idf) is a label for an Idy. An Idy may have multiple >> Idfs. > > An identity (Idy) is a collection of data that distinguishes an entity > within its domain. An entity may have different Idy for different domains. > > An identifier (Idf) is a label for an Idy, often following construction > rules. An Idy may have multiple Idfs. > > >> >> Anything beyond this definition are valid observations that show the >> diverse properties of domain-specific Idys. A discussion including >> examples for entities and domains is helpful for illustration. This also >> pertains to the relation between objects and Idys. >> >> Regards, >> >> Michael >> >> Am 14.04.2017 um 01:58 schrieb Robert Moskowitz: >>> I am finally getting back to this subject. >>> >>> >>> On 03/28/2017 12:07 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: >>>> The Identifier/Identity definitions in >>>> draft-padma-ideas-problem-statement-01.txt is a good start, it fails >>>> in the appreviations used. (There is NO abbreviation for Identity!) >>>> >>>> ID should NOT be the appreviation of Identitfier. People will default >>>> to thinking 'Identity' when they see it. Think about people outside >>>> our discussion group. >>>> >>>> I propose 'IDf' for Identifier. 'ID' is too owned by Identity. >>>> >>>> I will be working on proposed wording to improve these definitions. >>> I have worked up definitions, sent it out to a few reviewers, got some >>> comments and questions. First my current draft, then a few questions: >>> >>> Replacement text for: draft-padma-ideas-problem-statement >>> >>> Identity (Abbr: IDT or IDt): A collection of information that is >>> unique to an object and differentiates it from all other objects. >>> >>> An identity consists of information that is stated about the object by >>> itself or a governing authority. It consists of a set of attributes >>> and/or actions the object can take. An Identity may be assigned a >>> lifetime (e.g., a time period), which is determined by either the object >>> or the governing authority responsible for defining the identity of the >>> object, or a designated third party. An object can have multiple >>> Identities and can create and discard Identities at will. An Identity >>> may be ‘indestructible’. That is, it is so unique and non replicatible >>> that no other object could ever duplicate it, nor can the object discard >>> it within its lifetime without being a ‘clone’ object. Identity is used >>> in authentication registration and policy ownership proofs. >>> >>> >>> Identifier (Abbr: IDF or IDf): A label that is unique for an object a >>> particular scope. >>> >>> The label follows strict construction rules for the objects and the >>> context that the label is applied to. For a particular context, an >>> Identifier is used to reference an Identity for the object. In most >>> cases, an Identifier is bound to an Identity through some trusted >>> mechanism. An Identity can have different Identifiers, potentially >>> following different construction rules, for different contexts and/or >>> domains of applicability. >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> >>> Now onto a few questions: >>> >>> Per: "An object can have multiple Identities" clause, I am challenged >>> with >>> >>> "This is VERY dangerous. In most software systems, it is the >>> responsibility of the management system to assign a single identity to >>> an object when it is created. If an object has multiple identities, it >>> could suffer from 'multiple personality syndrome'. >>> >>> More importantly, if the object is allowed to create and discard >>> identities at will, how do other objects know that the object is who it >>> attests to be?" >>> >>> I think it is very important for some situations for support of multiple >>> Identities. No all. There are domains as indicated above where it >>> causes big problems. >>> >>> Per: "An Identity may be ‘indestructible’." clause, I am challenged with >>> >>> "This doesn’t make any sense. Why would anyone care if the identity is >>> indestructible or not?" >>> >>> I can think of examples of such Identities, or claim of such Identities, >>> like DNA. >>> >>> And finally, Per: "Identity is used in authentication registration and >>> policy ownership proofs." clause, I am challenged with >>> >>> "What does this mean?" >>> >>> I will have to work on this some more, or perhaps it does not belong in >>> the definition section. >>> >>> Comments please >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ideas mailing list >>> Ideas@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ideas > -- Prof. Dr. habil. Michael Menth University of Tuebingen Faculty of Science Department of Computer Science Chair of Communication Networks Sand 13, 72076 Tuebingen, Germany phone: (+49)-7071/29-70505 fax: (+49)-7071/29-5220 mailto:menth@uni-tuebingen.de http://kn.inf.uni-tuebingen.de
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Liubingyang (Bryan)
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Liubingyang (Bryan)
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Michael Menth
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Liubingyang (Bryan)
- [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Padma Pillay-Esnault
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Alexander Clemm
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Hesham ElBakoury
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Axel.Nennker
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [Ideas] Diasambugating Identifier and Identity Dino Farinacci