Re: [Idr] Proposed CAN WG charter for discussion

Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Fri, 27 January 2023 21:35 UTC

Return-Path: <robert@raszuk.net>
X-Original-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: idr@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37882C152567 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:35:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.095
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hmcn_bqQdW_2 for <idr@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:35:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14454C14CE33 for <idr@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id h16so6096073wrz.12 for <idr@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CQf3OP8oZ1Tfur9Eor1xLCGKFOsSuBQ7IARDV7svnHA=; b=aL6e/mfWrW6kOupu7Iaix4jYfj8TBYhwbUrhLx3h2iK/ppVUUAHN5YrcPAtLzSnNTZ qXQbLORvudMun6QFMxm6dI++CnuUxChRqUg0wwa6Of0jJyxzyIOERoofB3Rdt3sOt9jg uZ9r6vsira8RuwTJrQTfpta1zTx/KKmijg+Iq+BrxooRgUNee9FZ0gdsjBWRxlzzr1Vl ko43l4DFDtC+f8vc0pMLN7sWU8X4WKVS1nD2L04px+GdpKlOhFgYOnDTGHpNNLlOgrjl UlY1Caz/OtQRgYpnVe6lSI5hU+oXvwCjZxFbylofY+V9z1yV+m0N7aO5lptUhZgabJgI EXPg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=CQf3OP8oZ1Tfur9Eor1xLCGKFOsSuBQ7IARDV7svnHA=; b=NkAeJqCbon9YDvx7VfHlswNfgDdr0xmxcbN2Xtq/936tRkQSxZiXdlmgeHrhegEdk1 FQnQO9HMeGZyAJu91ORZ4gULCpXaVMLD6Uf90qjXt6s5zJbw4qRVBFJSk1A1mUff/3w2 uO3GWuJQnqoUTftD4CpqH0Y+qwOd1TCQEix6vio7/W2zYEGwaDYfDyi/ns6EIJurkhaV HHkb7HpDmmBQBIox4b/aVNiTIOLQUGWarb/vXBG4TIGagSPI3cRyRxuBpLTZU6uNsAqm SAJFC4LiaEmG59Q1Hhnn2HaTN0xTooQR/93qtQkGCVpmyS1IOguKlbSnUtxHuZdfGrzg tiqQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kpGJ/KYno8i1S8RwooQWBDMUmq77NNNeJHlaUfHUIqkegEbuXH+ VNvON1PdiIqa9XzYV4/FE2hHnEeeS5I6/7e2oZx2Cg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXuQ6Unsh9j+I1vbvWflzwExB6p5EgDqs5QquozA35zjpyapGVzXcjPU8nUDYV3wpSx0OliQDPBs07+Dn/KzZZs=
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:591b:0:b0:2bf:65ac:ebcb with SMTP id v27-20020a5d591b000000b002bf65acebcbmr1276623wrd.157.1674855329319; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 13:35:29 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <53B67919-AD61-489D-8115-EBCB5CCE1976@juniper.net> <CO1PR13MB49207D831961BE1891CEEEF985CE9@CO1PR13MB4920.namprd13.prod.outlook.com> <70C0E859-8EDE-441E-A1F2-7FFA68B9B6D8@juniper.net> <CO1PR13MB4920B520CB00D82B0576F8E385CC9@CO1PR13MB4920.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <CO1PR13MB4920B520CB00D82B0576F8E385CC9@CO1PR13MB4920.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 22:35:18 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMGdWbvm9t0GOpdWqmS5h4OMdmnX5_2kbU4ukkU6BXTnZQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, "can@ietf.org" <can@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, "farinacci@gmail.com" <farinacci@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f4643505f345a4d1"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/idr/bX79GghqjZ0pufiDZFG_X2TPEzE>
Subject: Re: [Idr] Proposed CAN WG charter for discussion
X-BeenThere: idr@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Inter-Domain Routing <idr.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/idr/>
List-Post: <mailto:idr@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr>, <mailto:idr-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2023 21:35:35 -0000

Hi Linda,

But why do we need to do that within the underlay network vs Over The Top
(OTT) way ?

Why network needs to be at all involved in distribution of the load
information if we could solve it at the application level
and keep network lean and as much stateless as possible ? Simple mapping
plane will work just fine for this resulting in OTT Compute Aware Load
Balancer (for the lack of the better name).

Why bring this "awareness" to BGP or IGP or even routers in general ?

Isn't the draft https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-kjsun-lisp-dyncast-03.html a
possible solution ?

Many thx,
R.


On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 9:43 PM Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> Oh, I guess I have over-thought of the "Architecture & framework".
> The proponents' wanting a mechanism for egress routers to distribute
> computing resources to ingress routers can be considered as one rough
> architecture.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 12:06 PM
> To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@futurewei.com>
> Cc: can@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org; farinacci@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Proposed CAN WG charter for discussion
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> I didn't mean to say that the architecture would have to be completed to
> the point of RFC publication before that step could be started! But of
> course, anyone studying the applicability of a mechanism, has to be
> thinking, "applicable for what purpose"? So I think that studying
> applicability presupposes that the person doing the study has an
> architecture in mind.
>
> Your summary seems about right, and I think it demonstrates that those in
> the side discussion *do* have at least a rough architecture in mind. My
> point is,
>
> a. It's important to write that rough architecture down, to make the
> assumptions transparent to all WG participants, and b. It's important that
> when listing work items, we do not lose sight of the fact that this is one
> work item.
>
> I don't see the bullet list as comprising a strictly ordered list of tasks
> that have to be completed in the order listed, I'm sure some will be worked
> on in parallel or even out of order.
>
> I hope that helps?
>
> -John