RE: Another attempt at plain language

Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com> Thu, 10 September 2015 18:55 UTC

Return-Path: <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Delivered-To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40F17C5A38 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:55:17 +0200 (CEST)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no
Authentication-Results: mork.alvestrand.no (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com
Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fWSZtdLT7bsa for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:55:14 +0200 (CEST)
X-Greylist: delayed 00:27:04 by SQLgrey-1.8.0
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
Received: from pechora8.dc.icann.org (pechora8.icann.org [IPv6:2620:0:2830:201::1:74]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71E0A7C5A27 for <ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 20:55:14 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [157.56.110.133]) by pechora8.dc.icann.org (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t8AIRmBg009366 for <ietf-languages@iana.org>; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:28:08 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector1; h=From:To:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=E4heZpHJuzMsc5oLmFAcpUjrOQqtI9VGFjZaG6LHGYQ=; b=mJMOU78cq+0C7CP4If+yFqC2tjUaU0vneA+BAPdQK7On+4WMuN10YWN8Y1Npv0MBG2yv1hzYgmgZQeObChxRYeknZHvh58o07lOULH/Zkdu9CLyyQSUn5+bypNnq70A2Fg7UIBbtrsbcPRuVLq3z8ZnEC8Xl9EzvoyU7ZWunBp8=
Received: from BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.163.81.12) by BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (10.163.81.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.262.15; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:53:18 +0000
Received: from BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.81.12]) by BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.81.12]) with mapi id 15.01.0262.022; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:53:18 +0000
From: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
To: Kent Karlsson <kent.karlsson14@telia.com>, ietf-languages <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Subject: RE: Another attempt at plain language
Thread-Topic: Another attempt at plain language
Thread-Index: AQHQ69zVsP21wQfA/0SHRn/94TTJUZ42BSMAgAAGNeA=
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 17:53:18 +0000
Message-ID: <BLUPR03MB1378889277CF8996EC4AB3E582510@BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <20150910082411.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.a3167855f1.wbe@email03.secureserver.net> <D2178AE8.32E59%kent.karlsson14@telia.com>
In-Reply-To: <D2178AE8.32E59%kent.karlsson14@telia.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8:2::186]
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR03MB1378; 5:tg5kA6NtYO1BYpXKbblfqe+ywRbXwxDcdNBvSzSCTy9ZdeJpUo+4omPPRtg6JN2Qmc71tK5x4n9xsX9QO1fUh7d5o4cyNtbvH8CJro1VDL8cgfMgExK2tA838q0fFX5Ay8312/+IDdDpcEUlbgLdqw==; 24:Q4eckDl+NYg7JlSQmcwPZntWLhXuYuUb3Rb8M0lLppykOpSucsBZJFc+J2u6bXQI9mzt9oYodmm4fskUbDU5FDmERUQegq8cWaUluA3CNXs=; 20:zA9z99UIzJaEhSi02UpD8EZfmViYy5p/MT6tnWQ7k382aLYymDqaFxMpRAMWJJFCeOfewntqsWuAyv1HZQdABA==
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378;
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BLUPR03MB13783FC88C8F4796E9E033E382510@BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(61425019)(601004)(2401001)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(61426019)(61427019); SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378;
x-forefront-prvs: 06952FC175
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377424004)(189002)(377454003)(199003)(13464003)(5004730100002)(74316001)(19580395003)(8990500004)(5005710100001)(62966003)(10090500001)(15975445007)(77156002)(102836002)(46102003)(77096005)(10400500002)(11100500001)(5001770100001)(68736005)(1720100001)(10290500002)(4001540100001)(19580405001)(92566002)(97736004)(107886002)(81156007)(5001860100001)(5003600100002)(5001960100002)(5001830100001)(5002640100001)(189998001)(5007970100001)(101416001)(50986999)(54356999)(76176999)(122556002)(15395725005)(87936001)(33656002)(86362001)(561944003)(2950100001)(2900100001)(99286002)(106356001)(86612001)(64706001)(105586002)(106116001)(76576001)(40100003)(3826002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR03MB1378; H:BLUPR03MB1378.namprd03.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Sep 2015 17:53:18.0609 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR03MB1378
X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.3 (pechora8.dc.icann.org [192.0.46.74]); Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:28:08 +0000 (UTC)
X-BeenThere: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Language tag discussions <ietf-languages.alvestrand.no>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/options/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf-languages@alvestrand.no>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages>, <mailto:ietf-languages-request@alvestrand.no?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:55:18 -0000

My son's taking French.  He'd like an fr-easy ;-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Ietf-languages [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no] On Behalf Of Kent Karlsson
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:31 AM
To: ietf-languages <ietf-languages@iana.org>
Subject: Re: Another attempt at plain language

Den 2015-09-10 17:24, skrev "Doug Ewell" <doug@ewellic.org>:

> I'm still not sure whether the proposal is for "plain language" in the 
> government sense, meaning content that gets right to the point and 
> doesn't beat around the bush, or "simplified language" that a child or 
> second-language learner could understand. These are different concepts.

I would oppose the former. Not all governments define a "plain language".
The latter is more informal. Sure, there are levels of "easy to read/ listen to/understand", but at least it is more general and not tied to what any government may define. E.g. "<lang>-easy" could be applied to certain news programs/pages (see e.g. 
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=493&artikel=184871,
http://www.newsinlevels.com/#,
http://www.noticiasfacil.es/ES/QueEsLecturaFacil/Paginas/default.aspx).

Thus, I would in addition prefer a subtag name like "easy" rather than "plain" or "simple". "Easy to read (or follow in speech), easy to understand". 

/Kent K


_______________________________________________
Ietf-languages mailing list
Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages