Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki
"Bernard Aboba" <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com> Tue, 09 February 2010 20:26 UTC
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Cc: ietf-outcomes@ietf.org, "'ops-area (IETF)'" <ops-area@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki
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Dave Crocker said: "This means that a protocol is a failure if it is widely used, but for different purposes than it was intended." [BA] If a protocol has been implemented, deployed and used, I don't think that can qualify as a failure under the RFC 5218 definition. From Section 1.4: " Failure, or the lack of success, cannot be determined before allowing sufficient time to pass (e.g., 5-10 years for an average protocol). Failure criteria include: o No mainstream implementations. There is little or no support in hosts, routers, or other classes of relevant devices. o No deployment. Devices that support the protocol are not deployed, or if they are, then the protocol is not enabled. o No use. While the protocol may be deployed, there are no applications or scenarios that actually use the protocol." Dave Crocker also said: "Deployed" is also a problem, since there is a long track record of industry's having deployed something but never actually using it very much. I submit all of OSI as a prime example. These are the reasons the wiki was premised on the simple measure of use. However I note that the column that lists degree of success only uses the word 'adoption'. However Target Segment uses 'use'." [BA] I'd suggest that implementation, deployment and use are separate stages, worth documenting separately. If that is done, we may learn something about the characteristics that affect success at each stage. One aspect that bothers me about use is the definition of each category. Surely if almost nobody uses something, it is a "--" failure (e.g. IPsec AH). But what if the protocol is used by the people it is designed for, but not the vast majority of humanity? I use Kerberos all the time, but most people probably don't. What category does this fall in? Probably not "++" or "++>", but not "--" either. So we're left with "-" and "+". How are these categories defined?
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Dave CROCKER
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki David Harrington
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Dave CROCKER
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki David Harrington
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Bernard Aboba
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Dave CROCKER
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: [ietf-outcomes] [OPS-AREA] IETF Outcomes wiki Dave CROCKER
- [ietf-outcomes] Definitions and conflict process Dave CROCKER