RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational
"Ong, Lyndon" <LyOng@ciena.com> Thu, 23 January 2003 19:09 UTC
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From: "Ong, Lyndon" <LyOng@ciena.com>
To: 'Loa Andersson' <loa@pi.se>, "Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)" <zwlin@lucent.com>
Cc: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>, "Scott Bradner (E-mail)" <sob@harvard.edu>, "'iesg@ietf.org'" <iesg@ietf.org>, "'ietf@ietf.org'" <ietf@ietf.org>, "'kireeti@juniper.net'" <kireeti@juniper.net>, "Lam, Hing-Kam (Kam)" <hklam@lucent.com>, "Malcolm Betts (E-mail)" <betts01@nortelnetworks.com>, "Stephen Shew (E-mail)" <sdshew@nortelnetworks.com>, "Alan McGuire (E-mail)" <alan.mcguire@bt.com>, "Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve)" <sjtrowbr@ihmail.ih.lucent.com>
Subject: RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:13:55 -0800
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Hi Folks, I can reaffirm Zhi's comment that call and connection separation goes back to G.8080, an already approved ITU specification of the G.ASON architecture. I'm a bit puzzled by the argument that no one but IETF should be allowed to extend an IETF protocol - I would think that extensions are generally allowed if they don't cause a limitation on the available codepoints and are documented to allow people to use them. Aren't some codepoint partitions designed for people to do this, without having to force all extension work through a WG? Also, I would think that approving the drafts is just that, approving the drafts and their contents as Informational documents, it is not being asked that these become IETF Standards. Cheers, Lyndon Ong -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 3:59 AM To: Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi) Cc: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); Scott Bradner (E-mail); 'iesg@ietf.org'; 'ietf@ietf.org'; 'kireeti@juniper.net'; Lam, Hing-Kam (Kam); Malcolm Betts (E-mail); Stephen Shew (E-mail); Ong, Lyndon; Alan McGuire (E-mail); Trowbridge, Stephen J (Steve) Subject: Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational All, taking a step back - I think we are discussing several issues in a mix that makes it very hard to sort this out. 1. What other organizations may do to IETF (in this context (G)MPLS) protocols This won't be sorted out in this thread - and the only opinion so far is that it is a bad idea to let anyone else change or extend IETF protocols. This will require at statement from involved wg chairs and ADs and an approval from the IESG. I will push for such a statement. 2. Have the IETF protocols been changed This is is a matter of how "changed" is defined. Clearly the OIF UNI signaling spec extends the LDP protocol, message and new TLV. This is referenced by a normative reference in the three drafts discussed here draft-lin-ccamp-gmpls-ason-rsvpte-04.txt draft-aboulmagd-ccamp-crldp-ason-ext-02.txt draft-bala-uni-ldp-rsvp-extensions-04.txt I understand that the IESG wants to treat those as a packet, and that the last call on the CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Informational in fact is a last call on all three of them. Further this could be construed to be seen as an "last call" on normative references - after all normative references are considered to necessary for implementing a spec. Also, the ITU work extends the IETF protocols, new objects, new TLVs and new error codes, that is why the drafts were written - to make it possible for IANA to approve the needed code points. In our normal use of terms change includes extends, but we should probably make that clear. The consequence of approving the drafts will be that the extensions by OIF and ITU will be approved by the IETF. I'm not sure that this has been in the open. However, not having a change process that relates to these protocols I'm not sure if the IESG can do anything else than approving that the IANA allocate the code points. 3. The quality of the drafts In my opinion (if I were to review them as a wg chair, but I'm not sure that those criteria apply to informational documents) we have a problem here. The draft-lin-ccamp-gmpls-ason-rsvpte-04.txt and the draft-bala-uni-ldp-rsvp-extensions-04.txt is an a shape such that I would (reluctantly) request publishing. But the draft-aboulmagd-ccamp-crldp-ason-ext-02.txt is not, there is a long series of points that needs to be updated. References, TLV description, un-expanded acronyms, etc. Would have returned this to the author for further work. Aside from that I have a couple of technical issues. Now, if the IESG considers them to be a package, this would effect all of them. I guess that it would be possible to weed the draft after it has been approved, but it deviates from normal practice. My belief is that we should try to separate these issues from each other. /Loa -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… John Drake
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Braden
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Kireeti Kompella
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Braden
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- Re: What review is required for "IETF Consensus"? Jeff Williams
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… John Drake
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Braden
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Braden
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… John Drake
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… grenville armitage
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Loa Andersson
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Christian de Larrinaga
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Stephen Trowbridge
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Loa Andersson
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… John Drake
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Scott W Brim
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Ong, Lyndon
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Stephen Shew
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Stephen Shew
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Eric Gray
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Eric Gray
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Valdis.Kletnieks
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Valdis.Kletnieks
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Kireeti Kompella
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Braden
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Stephen Trowbridge
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lin, Zhi-Wei (Zhi)
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Loa Andersson
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Scott Bradner
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Bob Natale
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Eric Gray
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Eric Gray
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Yakov Rekhter
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Varma, Eve L (Eve)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… vinton g. cerf
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Stephen Trowbridge
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… RJ Atkinson
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Lloyd Wood
- Problem-statement (Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensio… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Dimitri.Papadimitriou
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
- RE: Last Call: CR-LDP Extensions for ASON to Info… John Drake
- Re: Problem-statement (Re: Last Call: CR-LDP Exte… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was Re: … Thomas Narten
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … John C Klensin
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … RJ Atkinson
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Thomas Narten
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Randy Bush
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Keith Moore
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Scott Bradner
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Keith Moore
- Re: What review is required for "IETF Consensus"? John Leslie
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … John C Klensin
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Thomas Narten
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Thomas Narten
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … John C Klensin
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … John C Klensin
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Kireeti Kompella
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Thomas Narten
- Whether we should require "IETF consensus" Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- What review is required for "IETF Consensus"? Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- RFC-Editor relationship RJ Atkinson
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Robert Elz
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Robert Elz
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Dave Crocker
- Re: "IETF consensus" in IANA considerations [was … Keith Moore
- Re: What review is required for "IETF Consensus"? todd glassey
- Re: What review is required for "IETF Consensus"? Jeff Williams