Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.txt> (Pervasive Monitoring is an Attack) to Best Current Practice
t.p. <daedulus@btconnect.com> Fri, 06 December 2013 19:00 UTC
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From: "t.p." <daedulus@btconnect.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>, Stefan Winter <stefan.winter@restena.lu>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <20131203174852.21387.26099.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <A3B306E3-846C-45BA-8ED9-13B96AA645A3@piuha.net> <002501cef266$b0b8a540$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <52A1A3AA.3080101@restena.lu> <52A1BBDD.2090502@cs.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.txt> (Pervasive Monitoring is an Attack) to Best Current Practice
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:57:02 +0000
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Farrell" <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> To: "Stefan Winter" <stefan.winter@restena.lu>; <ietf@ietf.org> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 11:58 AM > > On 12/06/2013 10:15 AM, Stefan Winter wrote: > > The TV manufacturer could have used it - they were simply stupid > > enough to forget about it. > > I think in that case, the person who spotted the issue would > also have considered it odd if ciphertext continued to be > emitted after they had clicked the "don't send" button. > The person who spotted the issue did click "don't send" and the messages continued to be sent (according to the reports). Which is, after all, exactly what you would expect to see with good security - don't give the other parties an opportunity to use traffic analysis to determine what is going on. Tom Petch > S.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… SM
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Wesley Eddy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Wesley Eddy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Wesley Eddy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Mark Nottingham
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Adrian Farrel
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Josh Howlett
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stefan Winter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Randy Bush
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Avri Doria
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Avri Doria
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Privacy protection takes more than resolve (was R… Dave Crocker
- Re: Privacy protection takes more than resolve (w… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Update RFC1087 (Ethics and the Internet) [was Re:… Hector Santos
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dale R. Worley
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Faber
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Pete Resnick
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Tim Bray
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.txt> … Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Sam Hartman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Jari Arkko
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Michel Py
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Abdussalam Baryun
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Russ White
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Russ White
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Yoav Nir
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Russ White
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Tim Bray
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Russ White
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- Status (was: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-at… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Status Melinda Shore
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Status John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Rene Struik
- Re: Status Stephen Farrell
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Russ White
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Status (was: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpas… Scott Brim
- Re: Status Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- Re: Status (was: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpas… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Michael Richardson
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… t.p.
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Michael Richardson
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear (elear)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear (elear)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Hector Santos
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eric Rosen
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Sean Turner
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Bjoern Hoehrmann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- RE: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… l.wood
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Tim Bray
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Hector Santos
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stewart Bryant (stbryant)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Melinda Shore
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Eliot Lear
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… ned+ietf
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Stephen Kent
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-farrell-perpass-attack-02.t… Scott Brim