Re: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-00.txt

Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> Thu, 16 August 2018 16:37 UTC

Return-Path: <rbonica@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF0661277BB for <int-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:37:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.711
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2g1c9bK-SAJJ for <int-area@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 715441252B7 for <int-area@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108156.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w7GGYcLD021934 for <int-area@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:37:48 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=Wj8t33f4YEixjXSVOZl9rEMM6T2dCdmkJMo309CuJ9o=; b=qgvtcvQ2xsICi/MhoBgZU8ekZ3uodqWzV1D0yxMWRLJPZ57MA+q2RsiCQY78kGcEZOsF zIRX/vx0/LpJqP9W4aitRs1NEvgFJZpbYUHP+BC5hzjfCQl4QVAhvrGcAWOXhTcmgfDw 4WnS+sz5d9rTVBzrr6OfDG+KK81/bmadJp+BKgL8Qn70p3Rw7DlQVuSRKeFi+b+mBcMI F7d0G2NALrtJ3XlrbpPgcliIl16FxfhMTcGSvj1LhYBEpxKAwQOQW9LaYZeGJFqk3gfG LtDthodiUwJSUINOXAnxLhWGyItZ/d1LGXBDOtWEjTOBjukGkOPvIy31jmt5i00ul3R5 NQ==
Received: from nam02-sn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam02lp0018.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.18]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2kwbfxg60c-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for <int-area@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:37:48 -0700
Received: from DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.104.152) by DM2PR05MB557.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.158.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.1059.18; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 16:37:45 +0000
Received: from DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ec6f:ac52:d03a:b4be]) by DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ec6f:ac52:d03a:b4be%13]) with mapi id 15.20.1059.017; Thu, 16 Aug 2018 16:37:44 +0000
From: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
To: "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-00.txt
Thread-Index: AdQ1f3QwEbRguT4eTriT3OICVr/xPg==
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 16:37:44 +0000
Message-ID: <DM2PR05MB448FC419EC42CFB374836E7AE3E0@DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.0.400.15
dlp-reaction: no-action
x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM2PR05MB557; 6:EglAKB8riRkeLatZQMzK/vuZ8uKArZ+l0Y/DoCmfS0Tv14mIqkpK0yoYpos02UFVEeUp4SCKq3YkDQUkXzapxx1QpRpBd4nfjBhBS3c12p09YiYKZIKYUPIXfrO9vlveI/88ZunPngUMi1ogEAZPYMGKDPMyftJUAYPG4OvGgGA0ior0Fi+l1TPj8z78Jj+sTledy8texJjs6d6246AVaon9Z4L5O/doUWQeg2nvizIvcmiq0RJKFBhAJxkpXqbBe4x4x20l+veGP0eiezTnNKXoKOtM9gyrRROCoa/hKZ2Nq+3U0NQrrMdgnPxN40HvjQA7icOREBxSmtyUkwlAEjaQ63wRhio/nRQd0xrq4LxKevOi3/Xcps/KjOJvRd3ngdzM2Ag4BQp7TQ+t0zTj49bqPcQCz2186murWZ1CKyCQmKTC5QHEYU1u/VUNfUrZCTJhuGKTNjAzSWaoGOaczg==; 5:6b/GBpuzHRgty6or8lKwRux9n7XCxIWXvqFjtDBOVo4iSrDZkjPjv5cKb5wXXiI9Rm1GWvkUCA9Chi0orPkU/Cxtgunc+4iWk1vZoIMjZ4BD/6I/Tdsph/64dcOFgp4CQwxCMtKxpgPcfGPMWX9n99K2w0wUkxaPRt0c0kS99nI=; 7:3VYznW8XnQp+R7CcuPGO0olRjpVj3taqfUZXFIAvYlJYTyfmqaUikyCVk0z9KfOX+PH8QPYCjMweWFeMt0NmnH+X1foXj9CUFV+pVHZd+uZnJfHP9huTZkQNlb9AGF2sdvvSeaKlpKeahoIV/vshkn5oWsWVAtoTDgV9HojlsLN8jxm0JM3IMTAMQnLVWacqX0JoqHQ2P+RMUUFV4OG8YOm0dAZBtZZVtqhAHgvkZMId68ZAjoSk1aucgyJbyGKs
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8d8c582c-d6d6-4612-c865-08d6039697fa
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989137)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990107)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:DM2PR05MB557;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM2PR05MB557:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DM2PR05MB557FD3AC06E9E433F86F9A9AE3E0@DM2PR05MB557.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3231311)(944501410)(52105095)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123558120)(20161123562045)(20161123564045)(20161123560045)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:DM2PR05MB557; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM2PR05MB557;
x-forefront-prvs: 07665BE9D1
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(366004)(346002)(136003)(199004)(189003)(97736004)(14454004)(8676002)(305945005)(7736002)(25786009)(8936002)(2906002)(2351001)(6916009)(33656002)(68736007)(74316002)(316002)(106356001)(81156014)(81166006)(105586002)(5660300001)(66066001)(6246003)(86362001)(486006)(476003)(53936002)(6436002)(5640700003)(9686003)(186003)(256004)(229853002)(2501003)(2900100001)(55016002)(478600001)(5250100002)(102836004)(6506007)(3846002)(7696005)(99286004)(6116002)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR05MB557; H:DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: qp9Y2X0EH96IJTdm8SndTbKxT5+182iajJLiy4NzujaFYeq8FTwHWVt2G8pq7Ub9MbNJ8F5ppXKhUKeuzpYx87wXuyFp/gtLSvaCB/vmX96UbC63PTcAYGn3cFDxD27hc0gi2m1KNvKPHM9cwKFQBvFXTbTXOfb7HnDJmmGyftfvDSqE/7kCqwt5YWL/yGrXdlMtqaDSQPakSNi8D3BPtRZm0Rj5l5tPypLYtMwdv7q5zhYF/6W8vmHHoj4LYmBjsAHqhJ1LL0wJCaBRLSfQIoFlY2gTFMOLsjefMwbEEClo93au+tAoz2VhC7A2TLez6g+fQMmgu+mvq8ZYGrAoF760+II6x9yVzfYvjVfvZmg=
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8d8c582c-d6d6-4612-c865-08d6039697fa
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Aug 2018 16:37:44.8339 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM2PR05MB557
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-08-16_04:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=737 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1808160170
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/int-area/Glqs9S5k6znqUJKP1xK8GcOxJ1c>
Subject: Re: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-frag-fragile-00.txt
X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List <int-area.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/int-area/>
List-Post: <mailto:int-area@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area>, <mailto:int-area-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 16:37:51 -0000

Joe,

While I agree that these NATs are broken, they are everywhere and they are not going away.

We have to deal with the network that exists, imperfect though it is. 

                                                                           Ron

> 
> > A NAT that is broken isn?t helping users share addresses. It?s just broken.
> 
> I wish it was that simple.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ole
> 
> 
******************************