Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id
"Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com> Tue, 09 January 2024 07:40 UTC
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
CC: 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id@ietf.org>, "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id
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Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2024 07:40:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id
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Hi Gyan, Thanks for sharing your opinion on the S flag. It is good to know you agree with keeping the S flag in this document. Our plan is to update the draft with some text to describe the usage of the S bit, and we are still open to opinions and suggestions. Best regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: Gyan Mishra [mailto:hayabusagsm@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2024 4:10 PM > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc: 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id@ietf.org; > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > Subject: Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id > > All, > > I agree with Jie & Adrian that the S flag should be kept in the same document > and not split out. > > As the S flag is part of the 8 bit flag field of the NRP ID and is intrinsic to the > specification for carrying the NRP ID in an IPv6 extension header, I believe the > S flag should be kept in the draft. > > As pointed out by Adrian & Jie that the S flag provides more granularity > per-NRP ID per packet, per flow characteristic then is possible using a > configuration option for the case where the NRP ID does not match and the > drop of forward behavior. > > Jie mentioned the BFD control packets use case however this could apply to > any OAM telemetry use case where strict match is required. There as well > maybe other data path telemetry control packets use cases such as maybe > used by SR Policy SR PM STAMP/TWAMP packets that may need this S flag > requirement for steering per NRP ID, per packet or per flow into a Flex Algo > NRP ID sub topology network slice. > > The S flag could also could be used with SR path tracing telemetry probe > packets per draft below: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing/ > > > Kind Regards > > <http://www.verizon.com/> > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>* > > > > *M 301 502-1347* > > > > On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:18 PM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote: > > > Well, I'm going to pile in once more (it *is* Christmas) and then sit > > back to see whether there are other opinions... > > > > > > > > - As Ketan observed (a little late ;-) the proposed S flag comes from > > the NRP ID extension header, so there is no shortage of flags. > > > > > > > > - Yes, Med is right, this function could be configured at each node. > > Indeed, most things can be configured at nodes, but does that mean > we > > discard the IGPs? :-) > > > > > > > > - The S flag provides greater granularity than can be achieved with > > configuration. If you configure "discard or best effort" you have some > > choices: > > > > > > > > - Configure the default behaviour for "I don't have resources for this > > NRP ID". That is relatively simple, but it is "one size fits all." > > - Configure the behaviour for each NRP ID that might be seen and > > for which resources aren’t reserved. That feels like a nightmare for > > configuration. > > - Set the requested behaviour in the packet (as the S flag) which > > allows different behaviours for different NRP IDs without the > overhead of > > configuration on nodes that are unlikely to see packets for an NRP > ID for > > which they don’t have reserved resources. > > > > > > > > - In fact, the S flag provides even greater granularity because it can > > be set per packet meaning that some packets within the NRP can take > best > > effort, while others can be dropped. This, I think, recognises that an > NRP > > carries multiple flows for different purposes (easy example is that > > different network slices might need different treatments). > > > > > > > > And (again, in case any one is still worried) the NRP ID in the packet > > is not used to make any routing or forwarding decisions. It simply > > indicates which resources (bandwidth, queues, …) are used by the packet. > > > > > > > > So, I **do** see that the S flag could be moved to another document. > > However, I think that would be jut making work for everyone. I also > > think it would be odd to define the base extension header with a flags > > field that has no flags defined – if I were an external reviewer of > > that, I would say that the field should be marked “Reserved” not > > “Flags”, meaning that the document that defined the S flag would also > > have to Update the base spec to define the Flags field. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adrian > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com> > > Sent: 18 December 2023 15:47 > > To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk > > Cc: '6man' <ipv6@ietf.org>; > > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on > > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id > > > > > > > > Hi Med and Adrian, > > > > > > > > Thanks for the discussion. Here I'd like to give some further > > explanation about the usage of the S bit and why it is considered useful. > > > > > > > > In normal IPv6 packet forwarding, the next-hop and outgoing interface > > are determined based on longest matching of the destination IPv6 address. > > Packets with unmatched destination address are always dropped. > > > > > > > > After the introduction of the VTN (or NRP, will use VTN just in this > > mail) option, the next-hop and outgoing interface are still determined > > based on the destination address, this is unchanged. > > > > > > > > Then for packets whose next-hop and outgoing interface are determined, > > the VTN ID in the packet is used to match with the sets of local > > resources allocated to VTNs on the outgoing interface. There are two > possible results: > > > > > > > > 1) The VTN ID in the packet matches with the same VTN ID which is > > configured on the outgoing interface with a set of network resources, > > then the packet is forwarded using that set of resources. > > > > > > > > 2) The VTN ID in the packet does not match with any VTN ID > > configured on the outgoing interface. How should the node behave in > > this case? There are two options: 1) forward the packet with best effort. 2) > discard the packet. > > > > > > > > The S flag is used to tell the node how to forward the packet when the > > VTN-ID is not configured on the outgoing interface. > > > > > > > > With the above, I hope the functionality of the S flag is clear. > > > > > > > > Then the possible question is can this be achieved by configuration? > > > > > > > > The answer is it can, but possibly with a relatively higher cost. Note > > this is to control the behavior for NRPs which are not provisioned on > > the node's outgoing interface. Usually devices do not provide control > > configuration for elements which are not enabled. Even if such > > configuration is supported, as the behavior can be different per NRP, > > this requires lots of configuration for NRPs which are not enabled. > > Then we also need to consider the case where the behavior may be > > different for different flows under the same NRP... > > > > > > > > One analogy (not quite the same) to the S flag is the bits in IPv6 > > extension header options which are used to control the forwarding > > behavior when the option cannot be parsed by some node. That may also > > be achieved via configuration on the nodes, while it turns out a > > better choice is to use flags to indicate the behavior for unrecognized > entities. > > > > > > > > With the above analysis, hope you also agree that the S flag is a more > > efficient approach for the required functionality. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jie > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2023 8:23 PM > > > > > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com> > > > > > Cc: '6man' <ipv6@ietf.org>; > > > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: RE: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on > > > > > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id > > > > > > > > > > Hi Adrian, > > > > > > > > > > > If the reason for splitting was technical or made for a radical > > > > > > improvement in readability, I might buy it. But I think it is > > > > purely a > > > > > > documentation issue. > > > > > > > > > > It isn't. > > > > > > > > > > The issue is that the use of the S bit is not justified, including > > > with > > the case you > > > > > mentioned below. This scan be handled by a local config parameter. I > > fail to see > > > > > valid arguments so far why a per-NRP per-packet behavior will needed > > > to > > > > > process a packet. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Med > > > > > > > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > > > > De : ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> De la part de Adrian Farrel Envoyé : > > > > > > mardi 12 décembre 2023 18:04 À : 'Dongjie (Jimmy)' > > > > > > <jie.dong@huawei.com> Cc : '6man' <ipv6@ietf.org>; > > > > > > draft-ietf-6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn- id@ietf.org Objet : Re: [IPv6] > > > > > > Progress of comments resolution on draft-ietf- > > > > > > 6man-enhanced-vpn-vtn-id > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jie, > > > > > > > > > > > > I rather expected some more comments on this, and I sat back to > > > > watch > > > > > > them, but then it went quiet and I forgot. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, "better late than never". > > > > > > > > > > > > As an aside, I wonder whether you should follow the advice given > > > > by > > > > > > TEAS in its work on draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn, and feeding into > > > > IDR > > > > > > on draft-dong-idr-sr-policy-nrp. That is, generalise the VTN use > > > > case > > > > > > to NRP. I don't think this makes any technical change to the > > > > document, > > > > > > but makes the applicability wider (more > > > > > > generic) in step with what TEAS is doing. This seems to in keeping > > > > > > with the suggestions in your Section 5. But it would require some > > > > > > editorial work. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not enthusiastic about splitting out multiple documents. It > > > > just > > > > > > makes more work. > > > > > > > > > > > > While I understand that the authors and Med thought this might be > > > > a > > > > > > compromise, I doubt that the authors really want to do this (that > > > > is, > > > > > > make more work for themselves) and since no one spoke up on the > > > > list, > > > > > > I wonder whether it the (perfectly valid) preference of only one > > > > > > person. > > > > > > > > > > > > If the reason for splitting was technical or made for a radical > > > > > > improvement in readability, I might buy it. But I think it is > > > > purely a > > > > > > documentation issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is worth noting that if the document was split then, without > > > > the S > > > > > > flag, the whole flags field would be unused in the remaining > > > > document
- [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on draft-i… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Chongfeng Xie
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Ketan Talaulikar
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Ketan Talaulikar
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [IPv6] Progress of comments resolution on dra… Dongjie (Jimmy)