Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@gmail.com> Thu, 31 March 2011 13:00 UTC
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:02:08 +0200
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Subject: Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
From: Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@gmail.com>
To: Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya@ieee.org>, radoslaw.wrobel@pwr.wroc.pl
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Cc: Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>, ipv6@ietf.org
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Dear all. For Internet connectivity of vehicles, the use of IPv6 (with mobility support, NEMO) is being fully considered at some standardization organizations such as ISO and ETSI. But, I totally disagree with the use of IPv6 as a permanent ID of a vehicle, i.e., VIN, because 1) This breaks the layered architecture concept. 2) This causes security issues, especially location privacy. For, the comments from Behcet, plz see inline. On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com> wrote: > I think the idea here is to use VIN as link layer id when assigning an > address/prefix to a host in the car. The ITS station architecture being considered at ISO and ETSI defines that a vehicle ITS station must implement at least three entities such as the gateway, router, and host. The mobility support for Internet connectivity, i.e., NEMO, is in the router forming the in-vehicle network where hosts of the vehicle ITS station are attached. So, the use of link layer ID as the VIN does not make sense. In addition, the link layer ID for the router of vehicle is changed frequently, e.g., randomly generated ID is used for preventing location tracking. Even the security mechanism developed for securing the vehicle ITS station adopts an approach of pseudonym, i.e., certificate not including any identical information of vehicle and vehicle's owner and use in a given short time. Cheers. The host can provide such an id in DHCP > request message. > > Regards, > > Behcet > >> Dear all, >> >> I fail to see why a VIN would be mapped to an IPv6 address as much as I fail >>to see why a passport number would be mapped to an IPv6 number. As said by >>Scott, the purpose of the IP address is to forward packets to the destination. >> >> Such an idea is going against location privacy. To address the location >>privacy issue related to the ID of the vehicle used at the networking layer, >>the Car-to-Car Communication Consortium propose to use pseudonyms; when it goes >>to IPv6 communications (all communications are not IP-based) this pseudonym is >>used to configure an IPv6 address, i.e. a transient address (you can check the >>work of the SeVeCom project). In the meantime, the vehicle also has a permanent >>address (indeed, prefix) as which the vehicle is reachable (using NEMO). Up to >>now, there is no one in any of the standardisation or consortium I know (ETSI >>TC ITS, ISO TC204, ISO TC22, CEN TC278, Car2Car Communication Consortium) who >>is thinking about mapping a vehicle ID to the IPv6 address. >> >> So, I'm afraid this idea is going nowhere. >> >> Regards, >> Thierry Ernst. >> >> On 31/03/11 10:40, Scott Brim wrote: >> > Hello Radek. >> > >> > I have privacy concerns, because the VIN is permanent for the vehicle. >> > I suspect there is a good chance that the vehicle's IP address will >> > not be used just for diagnostics, but also for general purpose >> > connections to the Internet (for example fetching a movie for the >> > children). If an IP address is based on VIN, then it will never >> > change, ever. It will be possible for observers to build up >> > information about what the vehicle's users like to connect to. >> > >> > Also, if you are a diagnostic center and you receive packets from an >> > IP address claiming to have a particular VIN number, how do you >> > authenticate it? How do you know that is really the vehicle it claims >> > to be? You will need application layer authentication in any case. >> > >> > I believe it would be much better to decouple "vehicle identification" >> > from "IP layer location" (the IP address). These tokens have >> > different purposes. The vehicle identification is for use with >> > database applications and diagnostic applications, while the IP >> > address is for IP forwarding to know how to reach the vehicle. You >> > could possibly allow the vehicle to connect to the network and get any >> > IP address -- any address at all -- and then connect to the diagnostic >> > center and tell you its VIN and authenticate, all in a higher layer >> > protocol. >> > >> > 2011/3/30 Radek Wróbel<radoslaw.wrobel@pwr.wroc.pl>: >> >> Dear 6man! >> >> My name is Radek Wrobel, I'm writing from Poland (I'm working in Wroclaw >> >> University of Technology, Division of Car Vehicles and Combustion >> >> Engines). With this idea I wrote to IANA and Leo Vegoda redirected me to >> >> you. >> >> Vehicle / mechanic engineers are working on a new On Board Diagnosis >> >> standard for vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics). >> >> Today EOBDv1 can diagnose (quasi online) 849 failures. One of most >>important >> >> advantage of EOBDv2 (but not only it) will be constant, real time >> >> communication with service. The best way of them will be indyvidual number >> >> for every car vehicles in the world. This number ought to cooporate with >> >> global networking - TCP/IP (IPv6). All cars have indyvidual number - VIN >> >> (17 characters which indicates on a country of production and mark of the >> >> car: digits and letters A-X). Maybe there is time when someone must think >> >> about conversion VIN to IPv6 (like it's in local IPv4)? I've a few ideas >> >> about it and of course I can share them if you will be intersting in. >> >> Also we cooperate with VW and Toyota. I think they will be interesting >>about >> >> it too. >> >> Best regards, Radek Wrobel. >> >> +48660406004 >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> >> ipv6@ietf.org >> >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> > ipv6@ietf.org >> > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- IMARA Team, INRIA, France. Jong-Hyouk Lee. #email: jonghyouk (at) gmail (dot) com || jong-hyouk.lee (at) inria (dot) fr #webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/hurryon/
- Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Radek Wróbel
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. George Michaelson
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Thierry Ernst
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. George Michaelson
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Bob Hinden
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Thierry Ernst
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Nathan Ward
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Brian Haberman
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Bob Hinden
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jared Mauch
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Hesham Soliman
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu