Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com> Thu, 31 March 2011 14:32 UTC
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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 07:34:09 -0700
From: Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
To: Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@gmail.com>, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
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I meant something like DUID. --b > Dear all. > > For Internet connectivity of vehicles, the use of IPv6 (with mobility > support, NEMO) is being fully considered at some standardization > organizations such as ISO and ETSI. But, I totally disagree with the > use of IPv6 as a permanent ID of a vehicle, i.e., VIN, because > > 1) This breaks the layered architecture concept. > 2) This causes security issues, especially location privacy. > > For, the comments from Behcet, plz see inline. > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Behcet Sarikaya > <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I think the idea here is to use VIN as link layer id when assigning an > > address/prefix to a host in the car. > > The ITS station architecture being considered at ISO and ETSI defines > that a vehicle ITS station must implement at least three entities such > as the gateway, router, and host. The mobility support for Internet > connectivity, i.e., NEMO, is in the router forming the in-vehicle > network where hosts of the vehicle ITS station are attached. > > So, the use of link layer ID as the VIN does not make sense. > > In addition, the link layer ID for the router of vehicle is changed > frequently, e.g., randomly generated ID is used for preventing > location tracking. Even the security mechanism developed for securing > the vehicle ITS station adopts an approach of pseudonym, i.e., > certificate not including any identical information of vehicle and > vehicle's owner and use in a given short time. > > Cheers. > > The host can provide such an id in DHCP > > request message. > > > > Regards, > > > > Behcet > > > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I fail to see why a VIN would be mapped to an IPv6 address as much as I >fail > >>to see why a passport number would be mapped to an IPv6 number. As said by > >>Scott, the purpose of the IP address is to forward packets to the > destination. > >> > >> Such an idea is going against location privacy. To address the location > >>privacy issue related to the ID of the vehicle used at the networking >layer, > >>the Car-to-Car Communication Consortium propose to use pseudonyms; when it >goes > >>to IPv6 communications (all communications are not IP-based) this pseudonym >is > >>used to configure an IPv6 address, i.e. a transient address (you can check >the > >>work of the SeVeCom project). In the meantime, the vehicle also has a >permanent > >>address (indeed, prefix) as which the vehicle is reachable (using NEMO). Up >to > >>now, there is no one in any of the standardisation or consortium I know >(ETSI > >>TC ITS, ISO TC204, ISO TC22, CEN TC278, Car2Car Communication Consortium) >who > >>is thinking about mapping a vehicle ID to the IPv6 address. > >> > >> So, I'm afraid this idea is going nowhere. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Thierry Ernst. > >> > >> On 31/03/11 10:40, Scott Brim wrote: > >> > Hello Radek. > >> > > >> > I have privacy concerns, because the VIN is permanent for the vehicle. > >> > I suspect there is a good chance that the vehicle's IP address will > >> > not be used just for diagnostics, but also for general purpose > >> > connections to the Internet (for example fetching a movie for the > >> > children). If an IP address is based on VIN, then it will never > >> > change, ever. It will be possible for observers to build up > >> > information about what the vehicle's users like to connect to. > >> > > >> > Also, if you are a diagnostic center and you receive packets from an > >> > IP address claiming to have a particular VIN number, how do you > >> > authenticate it? How do you know that is really the vehicle it claims > >> > to be? You will need application layer authentication in any case. > >> > > >> > I believe it would be much better to decouple "vehicle identification" > >> > from "IP layer location" (the IP address). These tokens have > >> > different purposes. The vehicle identification is for use with > >> > database applications and diagnostic applications, while the IP > >> > address is for IP forwarding to know how to reach the vehicle. You > >> > could possibly allow the vehicle to connect to the network and get any > >> > IP address -- any address at all -- and then connect to the diagnostic > >> > center and tell you its VIN and authenticate, all in a higher layer > >> > protocol. > >> > > >> > 2011/3/30 Radek Wróbel<radoslaw.wrobel@pwr.wroc.pl>: > >> >> Dear 6man! > >> >> My name is Radek Wrobel, I'm writing from Poland (I'm working in >Wroclaw > >> >> University of Technology, Division of Car Vehicles and Combustion > >> >> Engines). With this idea I wrote to IANA and Leo Vegoda redirected me >to > >> >> you. > >> >> Vehicle / mechanic engineers are working on a new On Board Diagnosis > >> >> standard for vehicles >(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics). > >> >> Today EOBDv1 can diagnose (quasi online) 849 failures. One of most > >>important > >> >> advantage of EOBDv2 (but not only it) will be constant, real time > >> >> communication with service. The best way of them will be indyvidual >number > >> >> for every car vehicles in the world. This number ought to cooporate >with > >> >> global networking - TCP/IP (IPv6). All cars have indyvidual number - >VIN > >> >> (17 characters which indicates on a country of production and mark of >the > >> >> car: digits and letters A-X). Maybe there is time when someone must >think > >> >> about conversion VIN to IPv6 (like it's in local IPv4)? I've a few >ideas > >> >> about it and of course I can share them if you will be intersting in. > >> >> Also we cooperate with VW and Toyota. I think they will be interesting > >>about > >> >> it too. > >> >> Best regards, Radek Wrobel. > >> >> +48660406004 > >> >> > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> >> ipv6@ietf.org > >> >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> > >> >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > >> > ipv6@ietf.org > >> > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > IMARA Team, INRIA, France. > Jong-Hyouk Lee. > > #email: jonghyouk (at) gmail (dot) com || jong-hyouk.lee (at) inria (dot) fr > #webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/hurryon/ >
- Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Radek Wróbel
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. George Michaelson
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Thierry Ernst
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. George Michaelson
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Bob Hinden
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Thierry Ernst
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Nathan Ward
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Scott Brim
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Brian Haberman
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Roland Bless
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Bob Hinden
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jared Mauch
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Hesham Soliman
- Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6. Alexandru Petrescu