IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Usable extension headers [Re: New Version Notification for draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-08.txt]

Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Thu, 28 November 2019 15:02 UTC

Return-Path: <tim.chown@jisc.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3300120144 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 07:02:13 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jisc.ac.uk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 41G0PXXIqjHo for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 07:02:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com (eu-smtp-delivery-189.mimecast.com [207.82.80.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65AE812088B for <6man@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 07:02:10 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jisc.ac.uk; s=mimecast20170213; t=1574953328; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=4k9Xhl3MNpMXh3cFULkJMfp+JUA+soqCrerIyI7tLc4=; b=DDDFu7JyDFtVjXIFQwAwxMaMA+J/KCMm+xH5ht7OfBjvLGftETWb0SyHO/C2Hf9JNKSl/C m5UNAVFgjgPMpAjZMEpqhQ5FAfFRXMdtFeOAmSADmtlbbGdU28whM+giPt3WLawtmSM2ni Y4tnNMCwfWHLu43wdWuusWw0WDMVN0I=
Received: from EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur04lp2050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.13.50]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id uk-mta-96-Glnc16t9PJe_ICghi5H3qQ-1; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:02:06 +0000
Received: from AM0PR07MB4177.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.133.54.140) by AM0PR07MB5793.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.114.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2516.4; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:02:02 +0000
Received: from AM0PR07MB4177.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b4d6:d110:ca1b:bbb0]) by AM0PR07MB4177.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b4d6:d110:ca1b:bbb0%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2495.014; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:02:02 +0000
From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Enno Rey <erey@ernw.de>
CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Usable extension headers [Re: New Version Notification for draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-08.txt]
Thread-Topic: Usable extension headers [Re: New Version Notification for draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion-08.txt]
Thread-Index: AQHVpZVw51FAntOEekuorLc8QTmFSKef7i8AgAAPA4CAADetAIAANsKAgAAC4ACAAAN+AIAAJNaAgAAHk4CAAAqngIAABW8A
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:02:02 +0000
Message-ID: <FB4652DC-81C3-457E-8285-9A36F4CB032A@jisc.ac.uk>
References: <CALx6S346p=M09ZPY_xM2X3gkPp_0KUVZU_u4UeLUagomRnjhPw@mail.gmail.com> <79d22e5a-0145-9ad9-e965-d3744b58c3bf@gmail.com> <d791c9eee34c4e019292fc74d629217c@boeing.com> <5d2af468-be61-d2ca-5bf0-35d5f71fdb6c@gmail.com> <6A41AB04-F56B-46E1-8B8B-3E24B928A042@jisc.ac.uk> <1B629A88-AE10-4F65-8D3D-FD2702B6D63D@employees.org> <363DE16C-20CD-485C-9846-437984E7600E@jisc.ac.uk> <7405ECF9-2736-4DB5-BA5E-F1F0149A3DC8@employees.org> <20191128133739.GB83199@ernw.de> <0DBC1A8B-BFA3-41E4-BD36-41B190F413F7@employees.org> <20191128144253.GG82618@ernw.de>
In-Reply-To: <20191128144253.GG82618@ernw.de>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3601.0.10)
x-originating-ip: [2001:a88:d510:1101:7436:92fc:3556:8f7e]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4106358d-2336-42e5-9287-08d77413ed16
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB5793:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM0PR07MB5793B62411725FD328005CA5D6470@AM0PR07MB5793.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000;
x-forefront-prvs: 0235CBE7D0
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(346002)(376002)(39850400004)(136003)(366004)(396003)(189003)(199004)(76176011)(6506007)(102836004)(53546011)(11346002)(46003)(2616005)(446003)(316002)(786003)(186003)(33656002)(99286004)(71200400001)(71190400001)(256004)(6306002)(6512007)(6436002)(6486002)(6116002)(14454004)(966005)(229853002)(66574012)(2906002)(8936002)(86362001)(81166006)(8676002)(4326008)(81156014)(478600001)(50226002)(305945005)(7736002)(64756008)(66476007)(66446008)(6916009)(36756003)(91956017)(66556008)(25786009)(76116006)(5660300002)(66946007)(6246003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB5793; H:AM0PR07MB4177.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: WLgIDZc5C5tPzYILH5PyyZfot2x4zgyduimHTCRkuuV18ciG3mKo8V2GD2RnDV+XiGK1U0SqDa2/BPNyY46ARLtl7X9aPorqdS9mAAvKzlg+B18kPXQTMVTr9I4f5zl4JIlOUhVbXk2jOhSiqiu3wv2g+UFs3K7lAseJjokmrnX1hSTM2gwqNl3dvZ728EYj/8p8iiTeyrkeJ7q3SwJMeks96rT+TTYeSd6sJ1/Jw60fJWyzoYaf1iWYIawfKGXAF90oVXFspGiZ3KrzoPyRMwsAHaEdj/U2Zi8Gr8BDl87MIHj7ikKsPQIfpEnk9TOyyrQ4138kNRyPVYfuWy+JhFbURGmaWtE8eC++Gc2i6Y9FgxYhZOvlfqhs3S3YaPvp26hG1eLCTKAzjT8o48w6F7bgALw0FxL3oEPbz90ExGW4qek5MLnnrMfqOwJD35VrcPd/wvGyul2CVMJYK6sj2bRTh/uaG4d8x/GGY4rF2q8=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-ID: <BD14CA830E95D647A6C834368D1B365D@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4106358d-2336-42e5-9287-08d77413ed16
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Nov 2019 15:02:02.6580 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: D7/4mM3VERAbbjgwwc1n0eliJBG+CzdwiH+iGcfzyCGb9sD4O9WDatD4cMhSVWNxvUGq7i5Fh1q5k/yPdpON1w==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB5793
X-MC-Unique: Glnc16t9PJe_ICghi5H3qQ-1
X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/n5wKmBTIgrpvPz-9rDbJw1aWGX0>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 15:02:14 -0000

Hi,

> On 28 Nov 2019, at 14:42, Enno Rey <erey@ernw.de> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 03:04:45PM +0100, Ole Troan wrote:
> 
>> then you will get a lot of false negatives with the sort of testing that was done in this document.
> 
> Geoff Huston performed measurements on fragmentation (hence packets using at least one EH), as documented here:
> https://ripe78.ripe.net/presentations/41-2019-05-23-ipv6-fail.pdf (see the last slides).
> 
> So at least one other set of experiments seems to indicate issues which might be related.

Indeed. And there are others.

> Also my understanding of the IETF is that it is a very open forum for everybody (even those without budget for f2f meetings), so I'd think that any person with more clue re: testing methodologies or how-to-interpret results could come up with better data, as a basis for a successor of 7872.
> I personally know of at least one large vendor with a lab for such experiments in Paris. I'm fairly confident said vendor might even have budget to send people to f2f meetings.

As an author of 7872, I’d welcome renewed tests, which may also use a renewed methodology.  

I don’t agree with Ole’s comments about the way the results were presented.  At the time there was a good majority of people in favour of documenting the issue, and a small number rather more strongly opposed to doing so.  That opposition iirc led to a separate draft documenting *why* drops happened, which may have originally been within the 7872 draft (I don’t remember)  being dropped.   That’s a separate interesting topic :)

>> From an IPv6 practitioners' perspective I'd be very happy to see more up-to-date numbers as for IPv6  EH handling in 'the Internet'. I could use those to re-think the advice I give in my own sphere of influence as for the handling of EHs.
> 
> cheers

Best wishes,
Tim

> 
> Enno
> 
> 
> -- 
> Enno Rey
> 
> Twitter: @Enno_Insinuator
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email