RE: L2vpn Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6

+1

-----Original Message-----
From: Rogers, Josh [mailto:josh.rogers@twcable.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:40 AM
To: UTTARO, JAMES; balaji venkat Venkataswami; l2vpn@ietf.org; robert@raszuk.net
Cc: Shankar Raman M J; Bhargav Bhikkaji
Subject: Re: L2vpn Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6

I would propose tabling this draft, and attempting to create a document
outlining 1) how best to establish option C peering with other SP's, and
2) outstanding caveats/exposures that are not addressed with available
technology/standards.

Having such a document would better frame any subsequent 'solution' drafts
that address concerns not currently addressable with good policy/practice.

-josh

On 7/9/12 9:35 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com> wrote:

>Josh,
>
>       Yes quite leery of building an Option C solution to other providers for
>a number of reasons including trust, security but also others i.e RT
>Mapping, Scale, Protected Infrastructure available to others, IGP Scale (
># of LBs ), Pri/Back Selection of ASBR, attack on the PEs, etc...
>Actually the more sophisticated the Option C solution the more alignment
>and possible risk.
>
>I understand the ask that this draft is attempting to meet, but does it
>make sense to do this without addressing the other facets of building an
>Option C solution between different ISPs..
>
>Jim Uttaro
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
>Rogers, Josh
>Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 10:22 AM
>To: balaji venkat Venkataswami; l2vpn@ietf.org; robert@raszuk.net
>Cc: Shankar Raman M J; Bhargav Bhikkaji
>Subject: Re: L2vpn Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6
>
>While I don't necessarily agree with this draft's approach ("security
>through obscurity" comes to mind), I'd like to point out that I do see a
>need to assuage concerns about using Option C between operators.  In my
>part of the world, when I propose Option C to other operators, often the
>idea is met with concern/resistance, seemingly because the other operator
>has not done it before.  Even internally, many of my colleagues are
>concerned about security and the trust model in general.  It appears to
>me, to be no different than any other IP peering relationship, which
>requires some basic 'trust', albeit not implicit trust.
>
>I think Robert's suggestion of leveraging encryption is a more ironclad
>and reasonable solution to the problems presented here.  However, I'd
>still like to see an informative 'best practices' document at some point
>that covered some basic policies that should be followed when peering with
>another ISP for LxVPN exchange.
>
>-Josh
>
>
>
>On 7/8/12 1:46 AM, "balaji venkat Venkataswami"
><balajivenkat299@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Dear Robert,
>>
>>As mentioned in the earlier mail the following restriction is imposed on
>>the
>>Model C deploymentŠ
>>
>>The consequence of this is that in model C the service providers must
>>trust each other also in areas that are not shared. Therefore, model C is
>>most commonly used today where a single operator uses several ASs on the
>>backbone. In this case, implicit trust exists between the ASs because
>>they
>>have the same operational control.
>>
>>
>>In order to stretch this scheme to other Ases under different admin
>>control this scheme helps out.
>>
>>Thanks and regards,
>>Balaji venkat
>>
>>On 08/07/12 12:30 AM, "l2vpn-request@ietf.org" <l2vpn-request@ietf.org>
>>wrote:
>>
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>>>Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>   1. draft-mjsraman-l2vpn-vpls-tictoc-label-hop-00.txt ...
>>>      (Robert Raszuk)
>>>
>>>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Message: 1
>>>Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 14:39:56 +0200
>>>From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
>>>To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org>
>>>Subject: draft-mjsraman-l2vpn-vpls-tictoc-label-hop-00.txt ...
>>>Message-ID: <4FF82E1C.6000009@raszuk.net>
>>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>>
>>>I have read the draft-mjsraman-l2vpn-vpls-tictoc-label-hop-00.txt.
>>>
>>>It proposed an interesting solution to apply algorithmically computed
>>>VPN lable (for L2VPNs, but also possible for L3VPN) where inter-as
>>>option C is used.
>>>
>>>However I have a fundamental question .. from who the draft is
>>>protecting the inter-as service ?
>>>
>>>Who other then participating ISPs can spoof a value of VPN label ? If
>>>the solution is protecting from ISPs itself then I think it does not
>>>help at all as corresponding ISPs/SPs still have full access to their
>>>PEs and could inject packets to VPN sites at will.
>>>
>>>Moreover main issue with option C is not security (at least for the last
>>>10+ years). Main issue with option C and MPLS is that participating
>>>providers need to inject into each other's network all of their
>>>participating PE's /32 addresses so the end to end MPLS LSP can be
>>>build. Originally that was recommended to be done by mutual
>>>redistribution to the IGP .. now the general recommendation is to use
>>>labeled BGP (both IBGP and EBGP).
>>>
>>>So fundamental question to the authors ... who is the potential
>>>attacker/spoofer this draft is aiming to protect from ?
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>R.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------
>>>
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>>>L2vpn mailing list
>>>L2vpn@ietf.org
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>>>
>>>End of L2vpn Digest, Vol 98, Issue 6
>>>************************************
>>
>>
>
>
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