Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt
"Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com> Tue, 02 October 2012 07:03 UTC
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From: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" <sajassi@cisco.com>
To: Jiangyuanlong <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com>, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, "'Rogers, Josh'" <josh.rogers@twcable.com>, Aldrin Isaac <aldrin.isaac@gmail.com>, Giles Heron <giles.heron@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:03:37 +0000
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Yuanlong, You're welcome. In the next rev of evpn-etree draft I will add additional text to describe why forwarding behavior of evpn remains intact when doing E-TREE (e.g., by using the same ESI label). Cheers, Ali On 9/29/12 1:01 AM, "Jiangyuanlong" <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com> wrote: >Ali, > >Thank you for the reply, I got your idea. Maybe "split-horizon label" can >be clearly defined in the next version of E-VPN draft, so that it can be >understood better. >Especially how it is constructed for E-Tree service. > >Regards, >Yuanlong > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] >Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 2:40 AM >To: Jiangyuanlong; UTTARO, JAMES; 'Rogers, Josh'; Aldrin Isaac; Giles >Heron >Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: New Version Notification for >draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt > > >Sigh! > >When split-horizon label is used in E-VPN, the stack consists of three >labels (tunnel label,vpn label, and SH label). For E-TREE application, the >same three labels are used and the SH label is used for SH filtering >and/or root/leaf filtering. > >In E-VPN, the SH label is used for filtering of packets on the egress >interface of the egress PE based on the site of origin. In E-TREE >application, we use SH label for exactly the same purpose - filtering on >the egress interface of the egress PE based on the site of origin (that >can also represent leaf/root). > >That is why I have been saying in every email on this thread that the >forwarding behavior of the E-VPN remains unchanged and that's why it >doesn't make sense to add vlan-tag kluge (and as the result change the >forwarding behavior) for something that is already supported. > >Regarding OAM aspects, we have always treated OAM work independently and >we don't want to tie it with a single application of E-VPN. E-VPN has many >applications such as VPLS, VPWS, E-TREE, DCI, DCN/cloud and the OAM MUST >apply to all of them. We have started on OAM work for E-VPN and one draft >was published before last IETF meeting and more will be coming; however, >E-VPN OAM work will be done independent. > >Cheers, >Ali > > >On 9/26/12 2:31 AM, "Jiangyuanlong" <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com> wrote: > >>Ali, >> >>On the one hand, you said E-VPN solution doesn't have the limitation of >>data-plane forwarding and inherently support E-Tree, on the other hand, >>you agreed that 2 labels are introduced specially for E-Tree for these >>two cases. Furthermore, forwarding behaviors for these two labels are >>different (for root label, split horizon + forward to both root & leaf >>ports; for leaf label, split horizon + forward only to leaf ports) from >>the E-VPN itself (split horizon only). >>But my main concern is whether OAM is needed for E-VPN, if yes, how it >>can be implemented in practical? >> >>Regards, >>Yuanlong >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:15 PM >>To: Jiangyuanlong; UTTARO, JAMES; 'Rogers, Josh'; Aldrin Isaac; Giles >>Heron >>Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: New Version Notification for >>draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >> >> >> >>Hi Yuanlong, >> >>If one understood the operation of SH filtering in E-VPN, he would have >>seen that it exactly covers both of these cases that are mentioned below. >> >>Also, E-VPN allows for policy-based forwarding on a per MAC basis without >>scale issue. As I said previously, I won't be able to provide E-VPN >>tutorial over the email. >> >>Cheers, >>Ali >> >>On 9/25/12 12:02 AM, "Jiangyuanlong" <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com> wrote: >> >>>Hi all, >>> >>>I don't think E-VPN control plane can solve all the problem of E-Tree. >>>For the following two scenarios data plane indication of E-Tree is >>>needed: >>>1. Per EVI label is assigned, and there are multiple PEs with both Leaf >>>AND Root sites; >>>2. Per <ESI, Ethernet Tag> label is assigned, and there are multiple >>>Ethernet segments with both Leaf AND Root sites; >>>Using 2 labels (EVI MPLS label or ESI MPLS label respectively) is an >>>option, but maybe OAM is a challenge. >>> >>>Assigning label per MAC for E-Tree will not need this indication, but at >>>expense of scalability. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Yuanlong >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Ali Sajassi (sajassi) [mailto:sajassi@cisco.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:42 AM >>>To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'Rogers, Josh'; Aldrin Isaac; Giles Heron >>>Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Jiangyuanlong >>>Subject: Re: New Version Notification for >>>draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >>> >>> >>>Jim, Aldrin, Josh: >>> >>>You guys are spot on. E-VPN solution doesn't have the limitation of >>>data-plane forwarding that VPLS has and as such it doesn't need addition >>>vlan-tag to solve root/leaf indication issue as it can be supported >>>inherently by the solution. >>> >>>Cheers, >>>Ali >>> >>>On 9/22/12 4:34 PM, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Josh, >>>> >>>> Yes.. I think that is the reality of it.. VPLS either the LDP or BGP >>>>variety uses data plane learning as the mechanism to "learn".. The fact >>>>that we extend the L2 footprint via these "tunnels" does not change >>>>that >>>>fact.. SO in VPLS the only hammer you have is the data plane, so one >>>>must >>>>manipulate bits on the wire to infer topology ( Limited set of topology >>>>).. >>>> >>>>Another challenge is when roots and leafs "land" on the same PE. >>>> >>>>EVPN is intended to use contexts and associated import/export to manage >>>>the topology.. So here there is a set of tools to create the desired >>>>topologies, along with that there other mechanisms realized i.e >>>>active/active... >>>> >>>>Jim Uttaro >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>>>Of >>>>Rogers, Josh >>>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 7:03 PM >>>>To: UTTARO, JAMES; Aldrin Isaac; Giles Heron >>>>Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Jiangyuanlong >>>>Subject: Re: New Version Notification for >>>>draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >>>> >>>>I agree. >>>> >>>>Would it be safe to state that VPLS has a need for a 'etree solution', >>>>but >>>>EVPN does not, because it is inherently supported? >>>> >>>>The previously discussed effort of having a 'single etree solution' for >>>>both VPLS and EVPN may not really be valid due to this. >>>> >>>>In fact, I do not think it is valid to ask for a single solution, EVPN >>>>doesn't have a problem that needs to be fixed here, I don't believe it >>>>factors into this discussion. >>>> >>>>-Josh >>>> >>>> >>>>On 9/22/12 4:56 PM, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>EVPN is intended to maximize the flexibility of multiple routing >>>>>contexts >>>>>with arbitrary topologies.. As I have stated in the past, EVPN allows >>>>>for >>>>>E-Tree to be constructed in the control plane, other solutions require >>>>>some method to interrogate data and infer topology. IMO this is not >>>>>desirable. >>>>> >>>>>Jim Uttaro >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>>>>Of >>>>>Rogers, Josh >>>>>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 12:49 PM >>>>>To: Aldrin Isaac; Giles Heron >>>>>Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Jiangyuanlong >>>>>Subject: Re: New Version Notification for >>>>>draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >>>>> >>>>>So, this same sort of 'import/export' of targets is possible using >>>>>BGP-VPLS today, but it faces limitations outlined in >>>>>draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk, in section 2. E-VPN would be able to >>>>>import/export by attachment circuit, and not by PE? Meaning, AC1 one >>>>>PE1 >>>>>may import RTA, while AC2 on PE2 may import RTB? >>>>> >>>>>Its occurred to me that EVPN would be able to use other mechanisms >>>>>that >>>>>have not yet been discussed yet due to sharing a mac table over BGP. >>>>> >>>>>Thanks for the response, >>>>>Josh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 9/22/12 10:28 AM, "Aldrin Isaac" <aldrin.isaac@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In E-VPN an E-tree would be implemented as a hub-and-spoke VPN (like >>>>>>as >>>>>>in a hub-and-spoke IPVPN, i.e. import RTA export RTB at hubs, import >>>>>>RTB >>>>>>export RTA at spokes) with filtering to enforce downstream data flow >>>>>>if >>>>>>desired. The tree could be built using PIM, mLDP, RSVP, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Sep 21, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Giles Heron wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Yuanlong, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> however I must say that your memory of the IETF 84 L2VPN meeting >>>>>>>differs from mine (and from what is noted in the minutes). Whilst >>>>>>>Himanshu said that it was better to have the same solution for VPLS >>>>>>>and >>>>>>>E-VPN, Ali stated that there was no benefit in the E-VPN case in >>>>>>>using >>>>>>>an additional tag (such as a VLAN). No consensus was reached in the >>>>>>>meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Giles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21 Sep 2012, at 10:16, Jiangyuanlong <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com> >>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> During the 84th IETF meeting, the group discussed the issue of >>>>>>>>E-Tree >>>>>>>>in E-VPN, and it was shown that a single solution was more >>>>>>>>preferred >>>>>>>>than two different approaches for VPLS and E-VPN. >>>>>>>> This I-D probes how the 2VLAN approach can be used to support >>>>>>>>E-Tree >>>>>>>>in E-VPN and it seems not a big issue. >>>>>>>> Any comments from you are greatly appreciated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> Yuanlong >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 4:55 PM >>>>>>>> To: Jiangyuanlong >>>>>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>>>>>>>draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00.txt >>>>>>>> has been successfully submitted by Yuanlong Jiang and posted to >>>>>>>>the >>>>>>>> IETF repository. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Filename: draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan >>>>>>>> Revision: 00 >>>>>>>> Title: E-Tree Support with 2VLAN in E-VPN >>>>>>>> Creation date: 2012-09-21 >>>>>>>> WG ID: Individual Submission >>>>>>>> Number of pages: 6 >>>>>>>> URL: >>>>>>>>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2v >>>>>>>>l >>>>>>>>a >>>>>>>>n >>>>>>>>- >>>>>>>>0 >>>>>>>>0.txt >>>>>>>> Status: >>>>>>>>http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan >>>>>>>> Htmlized: >>>>>>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jiang-l2vpn-evpn-etree-2vlan-00 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Abstract: >>>>>>>> This document discusses how the Dual-VLAN approach as described >>>>>>>>in >>>>>>>> [Etree-vlan] can be used to support the transport of E-Tree >>>>>>>>service >>>>>>>> in E-VPN. Thus a single convergent solution is possible for both >>>>>>>>VPLS >>>>>>>> and E-VPN. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The IETF Secretariat >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >>>>>proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject >>>>>to >>>>>copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended >>>>>solely >>>>>for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If >>>>>you >>>>>are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified >>>>>that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in >>>>>relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly >>>>>prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in >>>>>error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the >>>>>original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>>> >>>> >>>>This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >>>>proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject >>>>to >>>>copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended >>>>solely >>>>for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If >>>>you >>>>are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified >>>>that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in >>>>relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly >>>>prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in >>>>error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the >>>>original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. >>> >> >
- FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Giles Heron
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Aldrin Isaac
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Rogers, Josh
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… Aldrin Isaac
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Rogers, Josh
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Rogers, Josh
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… UTTARO, JAMES
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… Aldrin Isaac
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… Jiangyuanlong
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… Aldrin Isaac
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-… UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Alexander Vainshtein
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… UTTARO, JAMES
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Jiangyuanlong
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-jiang-l2vp… Ali Sajassi (sajassi)