[Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last call Secdir review
Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com> Wed, 29 April 2026 23:04 UTC
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From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2026 16:04:16 -0700
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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Subject: [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last call Secdir review
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On Wed, Apr 29, 2026 at 3:46 PM John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > > Following that logic, and especially the shrine-rebuilding analogy, > perhaps we should abandon SMTP entirely and start over. > That's not quite how it works. Ise Jingu has two plots of land. They make a new one while the other is still standing, so there is no temple-free period of time. Here, what we would do is SMTPQ (SMTP over QUIC) and use that change to ditch all of the backward compatibility stuff. 8-bit clean, TLS by default, etc. I may have thought this over. :) I still don't think this MUST needs to be there. Just delete it. But of course other have opinions too. thanks, Rob
- [Last-Call] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last … Shivan Sahib via Datatracker
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Barry Leiba
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf l… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Ted Hardie
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: the worst exc… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Andy Newton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: [Emailcore] Re: … Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Process point (Was: draft-ietf-em… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: … John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Barry Leiba
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Richard Clayton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] A different look (was: Re: [Emailcore… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… George Michaelson
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] [secdir] draft-ietf-e… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Martin J. Dürst
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: A different l… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: A different look … Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: [secd… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Douglas Foster
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: [secd… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: Process point (Was: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re : … S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re : … Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Ken Murchison
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Michael Richardson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Scott Bradner
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Dave Cridland
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Jeffrey Walton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Ken Murchison
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Martin J. Dürst
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf l… Douglas Foster