[Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last call Secdir r eview
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Tue, 28 April 2026 17:46 UTC
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Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2026 10:26:33 -0700
To: Shivan Sahib <shivankaulsahib@gmail.com>, last-call@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
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Subject: [Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last call Secdir r eview
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Hi Shivan, At 10:51 PM 27-04-2026, Shivan Sahib via Datatracker wrote: >My remaining issue is still with Section 6.5 (Confidentiality Requirements), >which was extensively rewritten and discussed. > >Section 6.5 establishes three normative requirements: > >1. Confidentiality (e.g., STARTTLS) MUST be implemented by SMTP servers. >2. Confidentiality MUST be used when sending if it is available and >accepted by >the receiving server. 3. SMTP-receivers MUST be configurable to allow for >receiving messages without specific confidentiality mechanisms, or >even without >confidentiality. > >I support requirements (1) and (2) but not (3). > >Using MUST for the cleartext-reception configurability requirement seems >unnecessarily strong. Why are we *mandating* implementers to support >cleartext? >I understand that there are many providers who don't or can't support TLS, but >then this should be a MAY or similar. I don't think the current state or >statistics of deployments changes anything here; IETF shouldn't mandate >implementers to not have confidentiality for compat reasons. Mandating >plaintext for compat reasons in an RFC seems like a security anti-pattern. I >also noted the concern about "possible future regulatory requirements... could >result in bans on confidentiality mechanisms in some countries". This again >seems unconvincing as rationale to require cleartext. > >I know this topic has been discussed to death, and the WG generally feels like >we're quibbling over not-much, but with my SECDIR hat on I have to call this >out as having issues (or one issue in particular). I'll comment on (3). I don't have any problem with you calling out the one issue. There was one or more comments about not having (3) might break email. A community could move forward without (3) if it is okay with taking responsibility for breaking email in some part(s) of the world. I did a little reading and I came a few countries where there were regulatory controls on cryptography. I don't know whether those regulatory controls are enforced or not. I don't have a strong view on the matter as I am not in one of the few countries. Regards, S. Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf last … Shivan Sahib via Datatracker
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Barry Leiba
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf l… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Ted Hardie
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Ted Lemon
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: the worst exc… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Andy Newton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: [Emailcore] Re: … Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: Process point (Was: draft-ietf-em… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: … John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: the worst except for all of the o… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Barry Leiba
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Richard Clayton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] A different look (was: Re: [Emailcore… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: Re: draft-ietf-email… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… George Michaelson
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] [secdir] draft-ietf-e… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Martin J. Dürst
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: A different l… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: A different look … Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look (was: Re: [Email… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: [secd… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… Douglas Foster
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: [secd… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: Process point (Was: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ietf-emailcore-… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… John Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Martin Thomson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… John R Levine
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re : … S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re : … Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] Re: [Emailcore] draft-ie… Ken Murchison
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: [secdir] … Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: d… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: draft… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Christian Huitema
- [Last-Call] Re: A different look Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: [secdir] draf… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Michael Richardson
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eric Rescorla
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Nico Williams
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Stephen Farrell
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Scott Bradner
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Richard Barnes
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Dave Cridland
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Jeffrey Walton
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Pete Resnick
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Bron Gondwana
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: draft-ietf-emailc… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… Paul Wouters
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Eliot Lear
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Rob Sayre
- [Last-Call] Re: [secdir] draft-ietf-emailcore-as-… Ken Murchison
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: R… John C Klensin
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: draft-ietf-em… S Moonesamy
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: Re: Re: draft-iet… Martin J. Dürst
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Salz, Rich
- [Last-Call] Re: [Emailcore] Re: [secdir] draft-ie… Viktor Dukhovni
- [Last-Call] Re: draft-ietf-emailcore-as-28 ietf l… Douglas Foster