IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-gont-numeric-ids-sec-considerations-06.txt> (Security Considerations for Transient Numeric Identifiers Employed in Network Protocols) to Best Current Practice

Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> Thu, 17 December 2020 23:47 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@strayalpha.com>
X-Original-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: last-call@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3623A091C; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:47:45 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.318
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.318 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Wfl3E2QQ66M; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:47:44 -0800 (PST)
Received: from server217-4.web-hosting.com (server217-4.web-hosting.com [198.54.116.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 569853A091B; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:47:44 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To: From:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=HqiUOGmcVtMdiMJHRHCHsksMSnnBttTC0fuu/4wc++s=; b=40zO8Tt6cRBUEM0djKHqa67W8 pDZ/EPmZlWBJy5WLh73gfnNA3hAlOXm8ObCEjXTGr+vrDZes/UaEwje/M2DirbovkvFofujfnmTCQ foUHK3X8ICwk5ansgZQPZLgumdtkNnz8o3ARVdeChWUFkFJaprht0zvyGWZ+piogpCRGx+02gEcrW wnb/b1i4TbPxGlocOubq3JUqHpZAgeraQcwZNih4UMQ0GmTUL3XaJNxL9pEklMRDYgRGlmz9lm3ya 332kKW0JmjER3+v4ugz4dL4YK6WErpioWgHUCok1Ckj12WnXTqvq6qN9Fz/6l3bYjx/IXLORRT4jh 13jdGWlEQ==;
Received: from cpe-172-250-225-198.socal.res.rr.com ([172.250.225.198]:54868 helo=[192.168.1.14]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from <touch@strayalpha.com>) id 1kq2zj-000f8x-E7; Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:47:43 -0500
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A6282287-2A01-4E25-9D74-20C50B4E8525"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.20.0.2.21\))
From: Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>
In-Reply-To: <01EC88BD-53D7-40F0-BE1D-9C10329CC2FF@fugue.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 15:47:38 -0800
Cc: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, Last Call <last-call@ietf.org>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, "\"Iván Arce (Quarkslab)\"" <iarce@quarkslab.com>, draft-gont-numeric-ids-sec-considerations@ietf.org
Message-Id: <BBD8F5D3-9FBF-41F2-857F-723DF8B3C26A@strayalpha.com>
References: <CABcZeBPTk0zrm6iwJOiac6N7w_jYhtkoX3HeBci9tZ_Y8=uKVw@mail.gmail.com> <0FA1DBD3-8E38-4F0E-A8CC-725053B64CB8@strayalpha.com> <4c6de2b6-c79e-2c17-c977-cb183547f60a@si6networks.com> <4DD07928-5846-4C98-BEF8-C3F5C90E7955@strayalpha.com> <110716be-ae95-5454-196b-c3d0fe07e498@quarkslab.com> <BD355E75-C649-4992-BBBB-8776442C82FF@strayalpha.com> <e3d08da8-c9ba-a6c6-de0f-08bcd658f7aa@si6networks.com> <D2AEB60F-ABB7-4D10-B1C2-E134F786474E@strayalpha.com> <01EC88BD-53D7-40F0-BE1D-9C10329CC2FF@fugue.com>
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.20.0.2.21)
X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com
X-Source:
X-Source-Args:
X-Source-Dir:
X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/last-call/hAqMrtx2IUhpdp1Snh5dH0qbINU>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] Last Call: <draft-gont-numeric-ids-sec-considerations-06.txt> (Security Considerations for Transient Numeric Identifiers Employed in Network Protocols) to Best Current Practice
X-BeenThere: last-call@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Last Calls <last-call.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/last-call/>
List-Post: <mailto:last-call@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call>, <mailto:last-call-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2020 23:47:46 -0000


> On Dec 17, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com> wrote:
> 
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Joseph Touch <touch@strayalpha.com <mailto:touch@strayalpha.com>> wrote:
>> What I want to avoid is breaking the potential for IoT devices to use these protocols simply because they can’t implement the approaches described here.
> 
> Hardware RNGs are pretty common in embedded devices nowadays.

In Raspberry Pi, yes. PICs and Arduinos, no. Other IoTs, YMMV.

> I don’t think this is actually a practical problem, although I am curious to know if you know of new hardware for which it would be a problem. I will admit that ancient hardware might have trouble, but it probably won’t be updated, given the state of the art at present, so I don’t think such a device poses a serious problem.


What you add as a requirement ends up excluding as a platform. That’s the antithesis of Internet design.

The point is that these are tradeoffs of *implementation*, and should not be described as protocol deficiencies.

Joe

v2.46.0 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status