Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt

[Robert Raszuk <[e-mail]>]

Hey Peter,

To me the application here is "avoid red links" regardless of choice of
encap in the data plane.

Does it really make sense to separate advertisements of SR flex-algo vs IP
flex-algo into separate TLVs ?

Along the same linkes even for SR data plane can be SR-MPLS or SRv6. So in
the network running all three data planes you will need to compute SPT for
each flex-algo three times which may or may not be desired especially if
each algorithm would be as simple as to avoid certain link color.

That goes to the point can dataplanes interwork in flex algo and it seems
that currently they can not if section 10.2 is interpreted as application
to be a tuple of data plane + topological constraints (instead of only
topological constraints).

Thx,
R.







On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:47 AM Peter Psenak <ppsenak=
[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hi Jimmy.
>
> On 12/10/2020 09:12, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > Hi Jeff,
> >
> > Thanks for your explanation. I understand that for different data plane
> the SIDs or IP addresses have different scope, and will not conflict in
> normal cases.
> >
> > My question is more about whether a computation node needs to know and
> check which data plane is used by the intermediate nodes to bind to the
> Flex-Algo? In another word, can an SR path computed using Flex-Algo 128 go
> through an intermediate node which bind Flex-Algo 128 to IP data plane?
>
> computation node MUST check the application specific participation in
> flex-algo and participation advertisement is application specific. SR
> and IP are different applications from flex-algo perspective.
>
>
> draft-ietf-lsr-flex-algo-12, section 10.2:
>
>
>     Application-specific advertisement for Flex-Algorithm participation
>     MUST be defined for each application
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jie
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:[e-mail]]
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 3:14 AM
> >> To: Ron Bonica <[e-mail]>
> >> Cc: Dongjie (Jimmy) <[e-mail]>; Peter Psenak
> >> <[e-mail]>; Yingzhen Qu <[e-mail]>; Gyan
> >> Mishra <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> >> draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt
> >>
> >> Jie,
> >>
> >> The scoop is different, for SR data plane entry uniqueness is in
> context of SR
> >> domain (SID = value + context), while for IP it is global to the
> routing domain,
> >> FIB entry is a destination, nothing more.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >>> On Oct 10, 2020, at 05:47, Ron Bonica <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jimmie,
> >>>
> >>> Inline.....
> >>>
> >>>                     Ron
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Juniper Business Use Only
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Dongjie (Jimmy) <[e-mail]>
> >>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 11:06 PM
> >>> To: Peter Psenak <[e-mail]>; Ron Bonica
> >>> <[e-mail]>; Yingzhen Qu <[e-mail]>; Gyan
> >>> Mishra <[e-mail]>
> >>> Cc: [e-mail]; Jeff Tantsura <[e-mail]>
> >>> Subject: RE: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> >>> draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt
> >>>
> >>> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Peter,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your reply. It aligns with my understanding of FAD, which
> is just a
> >> set of constraints for path computation. Thus one Flex-Algo ID could be
> used
> >> with multiple different data planes. Is this understanding correct?
> >>>
> >>> [RB] I never thought about this. Is there a use-case? I think that it
> will work,
> >> but I would have to try it before saying for sure.
> >>>
> >>> If so, my question is about the scenario below:
> >>>
> >>> A group of nodes in a network support FA-128, a sub-group of them bind
> >> FA-128 to SR SIDs, another sub-group of them bind FA-128 to IP address.
> When
> >> one node compute an SR path to a destination, can it compute the path
> to only
> >> pass the nodes which bind FA-128 to SR SIDs, and avoid the nodes which
> bind
> >> FA-128 to IP address?
> >>>
> >>> [RB] I don't think so. However, you could achieve the same outcome
> using link
> >> colors.
> >>>
> >>> If so, how could this node know the binding of FA to different data
> planes on
> >> other nodes?
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Jie
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Lsr [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak
> >>>> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 11:58 PM
> >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <[e-mail]>; Ron Bonica
> >>>> <rbonica=[e-mail]>; Yingzhen Qu
> >>>> <[e-mail]>; Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]>
> >>>> Cc: [e-mail]; Jeff Tantsura <[e-mail]>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> >>>> draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Jimmy,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>   On 09/10/2020 04:59, Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Ron,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for explaining the difference between IP Flex-Algo and SR
> >>>>> Flex-algo. As
> >>>> you said, the major difference is the data plane.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If my understanding is correct, for one Flex-Algo to be used
> >>>>> correctly, the set
> >>>> of nodes need to apply consistent constraints in computation, and
> >>>> bind the FAD to the same data plane.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is it possible that different nodes may use the same Flex-Algo with
> >>>>> different
> >>>> data plane, e.g. some with SR-MPLS, some with SRv6, and some with
> >>>> pure IP etc., or each Flex-Algo is always associated with only one
> >>>> data plane? In the former case, should the flex-algo definition also
> >>>> indicate the data plane(s) to be used with the flex-algo?
> >>>>
> >>>> let me respond to this query, as this is not specific to Ron's draft.
> >>>>
> >>>> FAD is data plane agnostic and is used by all of them.
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks,
> >>>> Peter
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>> Jie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Lsr [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Ron Bonica
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 4:34 AM
> >>>>>> To: Yingzhen Qu <[e-mail]>; Peter Psenak
> >>>>>> <[e-mail]>; Gyan Mishra <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> Cc: [e-mail]; Jeff Tantsura <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> >>>>>> draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Yingzhen,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> IP Flexible Algorithms are like SR Flexible Algorithms in the
> >>>>>> following
> >>>> respects:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Links have IGP metrics, TE metrics, delay metrics and
> >>>>>> administrative colors
> >>>>>> - FADs define Flexible Algorithms
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> More specifically, the FAD:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Indicates which metric type the Flexible Algorithm uses
> >>>>>> - Specifies constraints in terms of link colors that are included
> >>>>>> or excluded from the Flexible Algorithm.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The significant difference between IP Flexible Algorithms and SR
> >>>>>> Flexible Algorithms is:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - SR Flexible Algorithms bind FADs to prefix SIDs or SRv6 locators
> >>>>>> - IP Flexible Algorithms bind FADs to IPv4 or IPv6 addresses.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, IP Flexible Algorithms can be deployed in any IP network, even
> >>>>>> in the absence of SR.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>                                          Ron
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Juniper Business Use Only
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Yingzhen Qu <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2020 2:08 PM
> >>>>>> To: Peter Psenak <[e-mail]>; Gyan Mishra
> >>>>>> <[e-mail]>; Ron Bonica <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> Cc: [e-mail]; Jeff Tantsura <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for
> >>>>>> draft-bonica-lsr-ip-flexalgo-00.txt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Peter,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Using flex-algo, a SRv6 locator can be associated with a single
> >>>>>> algo, which means an IPv6 or IPv4 address can also be associated
> >>>>>> with a single algo. So my understanding is Ron's proposal is making
> >>>>>> the
> >>>> configuration of flex-algo easier?
> >>>>>> Instead of using the exclude or include list you can configure a
> >>>>>> loopback address to a flex-algo directly?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Yingzhen
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/3/20, 2:47 AM, "Peter Psenak" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      Hi Yingzhen,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      On 02/10/2020 22:15, Yingzhen Qu wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi Peter,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My understanding of flex-algo is that for traffic destined
> >>>>>> to a prefix on a particular algo, it can only be routed on routers
> >>>>>> belong to that algo, which also means only routers in that algo
> >>>>>> calculates how to reach that prefix and install it into the routing
> >>>>>> table. It seems to me that using flex-algo (section 12 of the
> >>>>>> draft) it's possible to have a loopback address associated with
> >>>>>> only one algo, please correct me if I'm missing or misunderstood
> >> something.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      you are right. That is exactly what is being done for
> flex-algo with
> >>>>>>      SRv6 - locator is associated with a single algo only. The
> proposal
> >> uses
> >>>>>>      the same concept.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      thanks,
> >>>>>>      Peter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> Yingzhen
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 10/2/20, 9:43 AM, "Lsr on behalf of Peter Psenak"
> >>>>>> <[e-mail] on behalf of
> >>>>>> ppsenak=[e-mail]>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      Gyan,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      On 02/10/2020 18:30, Gyan Mishra wrote:
> >>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> With SRv6 and IP based flex algo a generic question as it
> >>>> applies
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> both. Is it possible to have within a single IGP domain
> >>>> different
> >>>>>> sets
> >>>>>>>> of nodes or segments of the network running different
> >>>>>> algorithms.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      absolutely.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From
> >>>>>>>> both drafts it sounds like all nodes have to agree on same
> >>>>>> algorithm
> >>>>>>>> similar to concept of metric and reference bandwidth all
> >>>> have to
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> the same style metric and play to the same sheet of music.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      all participating nodes need to agree on the definition of the
> >>>>>> flex-algo
> >>>>>>>      and advertise the participation. That's it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If there was
> >>>>>>>> a way to use multiple algorithms simultaneously based on
> >>>> SFC
> >>>>>> or services
> >>>>>>>> and instantiation of specific algorithm based on service to
> >>>> be
> >>>>>>>> rendered.  Doing so without causing a routing loop or sub
> >>>>>> optimal
> >>>>>>>> routing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      you can certainly use multiple algorithms simultaneously and
> >>>> use
> >>>>>> algo
> >>>>>>>      specific paths to forward specific traffic over it. How that
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>> done
> >>>>>>>      from the forwarding perspective depends in which
> >>>> forwarding
> >>>>>> plane you
> >>>>>>>      use. Flex-algo control plane is independent of the forwarding
> >>>>>> plane.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I thought with flex algo that there exists a feature that on each
> >>>>>>>> hop there is a way to specify which algo to use hop by
> >>>> hop
> >>>>>> similar
> >>>>>>>> to a hop by hop policy based routing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      no, there is no hop-by-hop classification, that is problematic
> >>>> and
> >>>>>> does
> >>>>>>>      not scale for high speeds. Classification is done at the
> >>>> ingress only.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      thanks,
> >>>>>>>      Peter
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>      _______________________________________________
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