Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi

Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com> Wed, 15 July 2020 14:11 UTC

Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 16:11:08 +0200
From: Vittorio Bertola <vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com>
To: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, model-t@iab.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/model-t/wunQyIk1B9VtxZxeJIAM52TYPuA>
Subject: Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi
Precedence: list

> Il 14/07/2020 02:25 Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> ha scritto:
> 
>  
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020, at 18:55, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
> > I think that this really depends on who you are and how you see the 
> > world. There are people who are more afraid of the endpoints, given how 
> > hard it has become to be able to know and choose who you (the 
> > applications and devices you use) communicate with - so these people 
> > would like to become intermediaries, or install intermediaries, to 
> > regain control of their communications. 
> 
> I did not claim that this was addressing all of the problem.  I agree that not being able to trust endpoints that you bought and are responsible for maintaining is a real problem.  I disagree with the idea that more intermediation is any sort of solution.

Part of the problem of this discussion is that different technical and operational communities have different hammers and so are looking to treat everything as if it were a different kind of nail. I mean, you could easily reverse your consideration and agree that not being able to trust intermediaries that you bought Internet service from is a problem, but disagree that less intermediation is any sort of solution.

Or, to Eric's comment, if you make browsers you will use browser-based ad blocking and that will seem to you the common way of doing it, while if you run DNS resolvers (or raspis with a Pi-hole) you will use DNS-based ad blocking and that will seem to you the common way of doing it. Possibly end-usage statistics reflect the dominance of global platforms over local network operators - I don't know the numbers. 

But in the end, I do not know how to reconcile radically different views on where services should be provided from. This is not a technical disagreement, it is more of an architectural and philosophical one with business and geopolitical implications.

-- 
Vittorio Bertola | Head of Policy & Innovation, Open-Xchange
vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com 
Office @ Via Treviso 12, 10144 Torino, Italy

[Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Martin Thomson
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Vittorio Bertola
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Eric Rescorla
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Russ Housley
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Martin Thomson
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Christian Huitema
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Eric Rescorla
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Christian Huitema
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Mallory Knodel
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Vittorio Bertola
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Mirja Kuehlewind
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Carsten Bormann
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Watson Ladd
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Christian Huitema
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Martin Thomson
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Carsten Bormann
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Colin Perkins
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Christian Huitema
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Jari Arkko
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Martin Thomson
Re: [Model-t] draft-thomson-tmi Eric Rescorla