Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03 (20131220)
Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> Fri, 10 January 2014 00:45 UTC
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Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:45:30 -0800
From: Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03 (20131220)
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Hi - >From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> >Sent: Jan 9, 2014 4:41 AM >To: Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> >Cc: netmod@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03 (20131220) > >On Tue, Jan 07, 2014 at 09:26:36AM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote: >> Hi - >> >> >From: Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> >> >Sent: Jan 6, 2014 11:13 PM >> >To: randy_presuhn@mindspring.com >> >Cc: netmod@ietf.org >> >Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03 (20131220) >> > >> >"Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote: >> >> Hi - >> >> >> >> > From: "Martin Bjorklund" <mbj@tail-f.com> >> >> > To: <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> >> >> > Cc: <netmod@ietf.org> >> >> > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 1:53 PM >> >> > Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03 (20131220) >> >> ... >> >> > What do you mean by a "group which does not exist"? >> >> > >> >> > Maybe you can provide an example (MIB) configuration that is not >> >> > possible to express in the YANG model? (assuming also that we remove >> >> > the min-elements constraint from the "member" list). >> >> >> >> Sure. An instance of vacmGroupName with value "TBD", >> >> when no entry exists in vacmAccessTable with such a value. >> >> Note that this is explicitly permitted by the definitions of >> >> vacmGroupName. >> > >> >This is expressable, see below. >> > >> >> > > If VACM has been configured with one or more users referring >> >> > > to groups that don't happen to exist at the moment, a fairly >> >> > > reasonable thing to do, the Yang/Netconf interface cannot >> >> > > represent that configuration. >> >> > >> >> > If you mean an entry in vacmSecurityToGroupTable with a vacmGroupName >> >> > that does not exist in vacmAccessTable, this is possible to express >> >> > with the YANG model. >> >> >> >> Cool. I couldn't see how the Yang model would allow it, since the >> >> list "member" >> >> is contained by the list "group". Could you explain how one could create >> >> a "member" without creating the containing "group"? >> > >> >That's not what I wrote. Let's be concrete. >> > >> > vacmGroupName.3.3.b.o.b = TBD >> > vacmGroupName.3.5.a.l.i.c.e = TBD >> > >> >can be represented as >> > >> > <group> >> > <name>TBD</name> >> > <member> >> > <security-name>alice</security-name> >> > <security-model>usm</security-model> >> > </member> >> > <member> >> > <security-name>bob</security-name> >> > <security-model>usm</security-model> >> > </member> >> > </group> >> >> This is where's where you lose me. In the VACM >> model the group does not exist, but in the Yang model >> it does. > >But you can't delete vacmGroupName.3.3.b.o.b with SNMP either. Yes you can, but that's irrelevant. It's only a reference to the group. The vacmGroupName is an index of vacmAccessEntry. That's where the group "exists". We've already gone through the argument about the ASI return codes. >Once >you assign a member to a group, it will always be associated with a >group. No. It always *references* a group, which may or may not actually exist. > In other words, a member who does not belong to any group can >only exist as part of setting up group members, e.g. as part of >filling out a row. Yes, such incomplete entries may exist for a long >time if you activate the row in SNMP. Using the YANG interface, you >can't create them. If we were to change the YANG model to allow this, >we would likely end up with a mechanism to unassign members from any >groups, which I think is not possible using VACM. :-{ That's a consequence of the decision to model what in SNMP is a reference with containment in Yang. I think it's an unfortunate decision, but it's clear I'm the lone dissenter. I really don't see any point in continuing this thread. The arguments have been repeated multiple times, and it's obvious that no one is convincing anyone. Randy
- [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-03… David Kessens
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… ietfdbh
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… ietfdbh
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… ietfdbh
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… ietfdbh
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… B Lukovic
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… B Lukovic
- Re: [netmod] Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cf… Martin Bjorklund