Re: [nfsv4] NFSv4 Charter change proposal

David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com> Tue, 07 July 2020 16:57 UTC

Return-Path: <davenoveck@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4253A1158 for <nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:57:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ziVR-jPaodf3 for <nfsv4@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C91F3A113E for <nfsv4@ietf.org>; Tue, 7 Jul 2020 09:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id g20so38922851edm.4 for <nfsv4@ietf.org>; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 09:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Go5zCuLk6ygrPZ2ZZynHhDOkmqGbnWTaWCzu68D+j1I=; b=NNb3utIwGdQahESG62ct3T96E6jf1b5CLsI/NyWPu9n7O6ig+11Jj2LeLNBb/iWB7D /Sz9M1xGAPz9bGa4QdpaTVOlctM/cQFJ4iAoFhLIj16wSlqQan6wTAcVIsQjuR4G9+4w KIVw/Co2hUUjIn9g4WK3rW5hWaZ2CVcwIv06KDy6CXRPJWGIk8V+WDSY5JJ9WlpVVvby ZCCLuX/yqsj7nUNVSThoNjUKzImrvoX8dnqBcUDxgvc6fngYpPrdBDB8MtLsWSba9Zgi Adx/ze8MHhSGU6h7oOudR+jHu3LjJIQ2ADeT926v+d4csnxDvdx0opAqi6innWJHVdaL VaNQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Go5zCuLk6ygrPZ2ZZynHhDOkmqGbnWTaWCzu68D+j1I=; b=UXKjrI0EqvUiAqQJaOFjvlHC1UPOBso9igniHTl6kGNsLvToRFWuYI8NeSklu5hp9G YH+5FTeV9xRQvpfo9HlBZBqdLnRfqwqk54bmvQaSSWa4Au76i+vp9Vpe75+ivK2+LHfy 5oz5bQUhJftuM3jC9IsOIRiyLnXNjq9C8Oe2y1/Am3dsxQFcN/C/MNz6umtUs+Je8SG2 3h7OHqF+Q7C2nTwV/tEejlIX5O8yLLzRYhDW0jmTRijlctijorhUVGA6oli9stnczFYa 0Kf3Wpgbpzcf8lGkJrN1o9QTydO1iczVZ5iAwnjZQ33TTf/YK1dsnHzhNsTPOtyt48Sm OiIg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533r9JPhZtpwJq9pBnMRkYRUYfP0EXQgAya3vFzhGQcAZlU1GS6q Ib/rAlRPSAhl5ep6JoT4RsUx0B6CHvfdtWBl2TE=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwPcWjN38V+1ZVek1kIksNyQH8soEMaCO/T6C84SnQF/o7lDiZxbTNE3VcrOJSTTYyiQXpQ7+AhIC369nSI5aY=
X-Received: by 2002:a50:c219:: with SMTP id n25mr63144099edf.306.1594141065011; Tue, 07 Jul 2020 09:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <1c46b13053661a78fb69ee8783f29130447eff63.camel@ericsson.com> <MN2PR19MB4045961F74E540E8CE17B87983660@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR19MB4045961F74E540E8CE17B87983660@MN2PR19MB4045.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
From: David Noveck <davenoveck@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2020 12:57:33 -0400
Message-ID: <CADaq8jciyTOwb4XC__mdHj1WtZcF+KcqsJWYhst3KFfTRSeEEA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
Cc: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, NFSv4 <nfsv4@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e6e54005a9dce355"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nfsv4/B-dFoBJB46rhb_bJ6YEkoWgzZek>
Subject: Re: [nfsv4] NFSv4 Charter change proposal
X-BeenThere: nfsv4@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: NFSv4 Working Group <nfsv4.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/nfsv4>, <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/nfsv4/>
List-Post: <mailto:nfsv4@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nfsv4>, <mailto:nfsv4-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2020 16:57:49 -0000

Works for me.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 12:23 PM Black, David <David.Black@dell.com> wrote:

> Hi Magnus,
>
> > So I am not a great fan of unspecific allowances. Especially when it
> comes cross WG
> > matters.
>
> Ok ... as Tom subsequently wrote:
>
> Tom> Just to confirm, no, there is no linkage at all to QUIC from Push
> Mode.
> Tom> It is a straight-up RDMA extension, with no transport implication on
> TCP, QUIC, or any other lower layer.
>
> I understand the specific intent here is to have the NFSV4 WG take on
> responsibility for maintenance and extension of the RDMA protocols
> originally developed by the RDDP WG (RFCs 5040-5045, e.g., RDMAP, DDP and
> MPA) and subsequently maintained by the STORM WG (i.e., RFCs 6580, 6581 and
> 7306).  The draft that Tom is working on is akin to RFC 7306 - it's
> primarily a functional extension to RDMAP (RFC 5040), but also has some
> impacts on DDP (RFC 5041).
>
> I'd suggest updating the charter with a paragraph that states that scope
> explicitly, e.g.:
>
>         The NFSv4 working group is also responsible for maintenance and
> extension
>         of the RDMA protocols originally developed by the now-concluded
> RDDP WG
>         (RFCs 5040-5045, e.g., RDMAP, DDP and MPA) , whose maintenance and
>         extension were previously handled by the now-concluded STORM WG.
>
> The overall structural goal here is not to send that activity to TSVWG, as
> the relevant expertise is in the NFSV4 WG rather than in the TSVWG WG, and
> TSVWG has more than enough work to keep it busy ;-).
>
> Thanks, --David
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfsv4 <nfsv4-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Magnus Westerlund
> > Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 7:44 AM
> > To: nfsv4@ietf.org
> > Subject: [nfsv4] NFSv4 Charter change proposal
> >
> >
> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I like to discuss the proposed charter change as written by David:
> >
> > > I am now proposing replacing the second paragraph of the extensions
> > > section which now reads:
> > >
> > > Similarly, associated ONC protocol components that have a versioning/
> > > extension framework can be incrementally extended, when necessary.
> > >
> > > By the following three-paragraph replacement:
> > >
> > > In dealing with needed extensions to areas that underlay NFSv4, the
> > > working group's role will depend on the specific area needing
> > > extension.  In the case of associated ONC protocol components, those
> > > that have a versioning/extension framework can be incrementally
> extended,
> > when necessary.
> > >
> > > In the case of  extensions needed to lower-layer transport facilities
> > > of particular importance to NFSv4, the working group will work with
> > > the responsible working group to make sure needed extensions are
> available.
> > >
> > > In cases in which there is no assigned working group,  the  Nfsv4
> > > working group can, with coordination provided by the relevant Area
> > > Director(s), help by developing the necessary extension itself, as is
> > > being done in providing an extension to RDMAP, RFC5040/7306, for
> enhanced
> > memory placement ("Push Mode").
> > >
> > >
> >
> > So I am not a great fan of unspecific allowances. Especially when it
> comes cross WG
> > matters. Sorry if I am missing any context here, but if this is to
> enable a mapping to
> > QUIC. Then I think the WG and proponents for this can discuss a
> individual draft
> > until you think you understand the problem and what requirements that
> puts on
> > QUIC and if new functionality. Having that understanding it is much
> clearer to
> > determine how to best charter that work.
> >
> > I will note that the QUIC WG is kept on a short leash so far when it
> comes to
> > extensions.
> >
> > When it comes to the charter I am actually considering if we should do a
> complete
> > rewrite to a more focus charter that are more explicit on what set of
> work the WG
> > is doing.
> >
> > I am happy to discuss this more on Thursday.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Magnus Westerlund
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Networks, Ericsson Research
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
> > Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
> > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nfsv4 mailing list
> > nfsv4@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nfsv4
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfsv4 mailing list
> nfsv4@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nfsv4
>