RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels
"Cheng Hong" <Hong.Cheng@sg.panasonic.com> Mon, 01 August 2005 05:59 UTC
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Subject: RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels
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Thread-topic: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels
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From: Cheng Hong <Hong.Cheng@sg.panasonic.com>
To: Charles Shen <charles@cs.columbia.edu>, Takako Sanda <sanda.takako@jp.panasonic.com>, "Hancock, Robert" <robert.hancock@roke.co.uk>, john.loughney@nokia.com, nsis@ietf.org
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Cc: Toyoki Ue <ue.toyoki@jp.panasonic.com>, Qijie Huang <Jack.Huangqj@sg.panasonic.com>
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Hi Charles, > Wouldn't the MRI change every time you have an address change? Does this draft keep the assumption that MRI and Flow ID are tied togher? The draft keeps the assumption that MRI and Flow ID are tied together. The sentence you quoted is trying to state the fact that if the Filter List is employed, the Flow ID's dependency on the address information can be relaxed, and it would result in less state management, e.g. new path discovery. Some points about this was discussed in the mailing list after last Interim meeting. We should have expanded the text to explain it. > Also it seems to me we will have one session with one SESSION ID and possibly multiple FLOW IDs, then each FLOW ID may have multiple FILTER SPECS? > Please correct me if I misunderstood it. You are correct that there may be multiple Flows within one Session, according to the definition of Session and Flow in NSIS, e.g. due to mobility, multihoming, and host decisions. How these Flows relate to each other is the question addressed in draft draft-sanda-nsis-path-type-02.txt. It talks about a logic Path Type that can be used to correlate certain flows within a Session (instead of implicitly assuming all the Flows within the Session are bound together). In this aspects, it related to the intra-session association idea in your draft draft-shen-nsis-tunnel-00.txt, although looking at a separate problem. It is trying to solve those mobility related issues. Also, within a same flow, there may need several Filter Specs to accurately reflect the addresses involved. This is the issue address in the draft-cheng-nsis-flowid-issues-01. Several scenarios/use cases were described to illustrates the needs for this. > Indeed, I feel that the FILTER_LIST approach with its ADD action might serve a similar function as ASSOCIATE_FLOW_SESSION. However, the action name might > need to be made more specific. i.e, to indicate whether this is for NSIS-tunnel handling or for other purposes. I have the same feeling here. Especially for a aggregated case, the Filter_List approach may be useful to handle the possible disagreement between Flow ID and FCI. I agree that to use it for that purpose, some modifications is necessary. Takako, one of the co-author of the draft, will attend the IETF meeting this week. So, some face to face discussion may be able to sort out the details. cheers Cheng Hong ________________________________ From: Charles Shen [mailto:charles@cs.columbia.edu] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:33 AM To: 'Hancock, Robert'; john.loughney@nokia.com; Cheng Hong; nsis@ietf.org Subject: RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Hi Robert, I see them as related yet slightly different issues. According to my understanding, generally Flow (packet) Classfication Information is assumed to be derived from the flow MRI. draft-cheng-nsis-flowid-issues-01.txt discussed cases where this might not be sufficient and it might be desired to separate the flow classification information from MRI. In fact there is a related case in the NSIS tunneling analysis. Packets inside the tunnel carry tunnel MRI in the outer header and the e2e MRI in the innner header. The separation of the tunnel MRI and tunnel flow classification information will occur if flows inside the tunnel are to be classified based on the inner header. (Although note that our chosen approach is to perform tunnel flow classification based on the outer header due to the fact that most routers won't look at the inner header.) Two basic solutions to the above issue seem to be either extending the current MRI definition or having a separate flow classification information object. The Filter_List represents one of the latter approaches. I have a few questions about this Filter_List mechanism and would appreciate if the authors of draft-cheng-nsis-flowid-issues-01.txt can clarify. Sec. 6.1 says: Since the NTLP does not need to modify the Flow ID or MRI every time the address changes, the state maintained on the NSIS nodes will be more stable, and thus requires less operation in updating. Wouldn't the MRI change every time you have an address change? Does this draft keep the assumption that MRI and Flow ID are tied togher? Also it seems to me we will have one session with one SESSION ID and possibly multiple FLOW IDs, then each FLOW ID may have multiple FILTER SPECS? Please correct me if I misunderstood it. draft-shen-nsis-tunnel-00.txt discusses intra-session associaiton, i.e. to associate different FLOW IDs (for flow classification) with the same SESSION ID. The association may be done for different purposes, such as supporting NSIS operation over IP tunnels. The association can be achieved in different ways given different assumptions about the relationship between flow classification information and MRI. Indeed, I feel that the FILTER_LIST approach with its ADD action might serve a similar function as ASSOCIATE_FLOW_SESSION. However, the action name might need to be made more specific. i.e, to indicate whether this is for NSIS-tunnel handling or for other purposes. Thanks. Charles -----Original Message----- From: Hancock, Robert [mailto:robert.hancock@roke.co.uk] Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:20 AM To: john.loughney@nokia.com; charles@cs.columbia.edu; nsis@ietf.org Subject: RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Hi, One thing it would be interesting to get the viewpoints of the various sets of authors on is whether the use case for the BOUND_FLOW_SESSION (in this draft) is related to the use case for the "Filter List" from draft-cheng-nsis-flowid-issues-01.txt or "Path Type" from draft-sanda-nsis-path-type-02.txt. All of these things seem to be about ways to link together multiple signalling sessions in various ways. One feels that generic (multi-NSLP) solutions should be possible, but it is not clear to me exactly how many different problems there are (or how many different solutions are needed). Robert H. > -----Original Message----- > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of john.loughney@nokia.com > Sent: 30 July 2005 11:09 > To: charles@cs.columbia.edu; nsis@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels > > > Hi Charles, > > Thanks for the draft, I think this is quite a useful > analysis. As tunneling, like multihoming, can be related to > mobility, I wonder if the analysis could go into the Mobility > Applicability Statement document. > > After that, for the BOUND_FLOW_SESSION object, do you think > that this would be a general object for all NSLPs that might > run over a tunnel? One option would be to add this to the > existing NSLPs, or to write a very short document registering > this as a NSLP object in the NSIS IANA registry (when there is one). > > What does the rest of the wg think? > > thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsis-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:nsis-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > > ext Charles Shen > > Sent: 14 July, 2005 07:45 > > To: nsis@ietf.org > > Subject: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > We've submitted a draft on "NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels". > > The abstract is > > as follows: > > > > In this draft we briefly review various IP Tunnelling > > mechanisms and > > discuss the main problems with signaling operation over > IP tunnels. > > We also summarize the existing RSVP operation over IP tunnels > > mechanism. Then we present the design details and case > examples of > > an NSIS operation over IP tunnels scheme. QoS NSLP is > > assumed as the > > NSIS signaling application in our discussion. > > > > The document is available at > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-shen-nsis-tunnel-00.txt > > > > Any comments are greatly appreciated! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Charles > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nsis mailing list > > nsis@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis > > > > _______________________________________________ > nsis mailing list > nsis@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis >
_______________________________________________ nsis mailing list nsis@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nsis
- RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels john.loughney
- RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Hancock, Robert
- RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Charles Shen
- RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Charles Shen
- RE: [NSIS] Draft on NSIS Operation Over IP Tunnels Cheng Hong