Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i
Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> Thu, 05 November 2015 08:25 UTC
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From: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 09:25:02 +0100
In-Reply-To: <563955F4.9030607@cs.tcd.ie> (Stephen Farrell's message of "Wed, 4 Nov 2015 00:48:52 +0000")
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Cc: Nils Durner <ndurner@googlemail.com>, Alex Biryukov <alex.biryukov@uni.lu>, "openpgp@ietf.org" <openpgp@ietf.org>, Dmitry Khovratovich <khovratovich@gmail.com>, Daniel Dinu <dumitru-daniel.dinu@uni.lu>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Subject: Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i
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We have now pushed out a -00 strawman on Argon2 in ID form: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-argon2-00 I'm not happy with the explanation of the H' and G functions, and the permutation P (from BLAKE2b) and the indexing section are missing. Reference code in a higher-level language like python would be useful. If those things, and an ASN.1 schema is added, I believe the document would be good to go. We need to have an IETF discussion whether we are interested in the Argon2d non-side-channel safe variant. The Argon2 paper implies that the Argon2i side-channel safe variant is for "dangerous settings" where you need side-channel safety. For Internet use I believe we have already passed the point where we can ignore side-channel concerns, since they have been used in several successful attacks already. This could be resolved in the security considerations, but I'm concerned about giving people too much rope here. /Simon Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> writes: > Hiya, > > One way to handle this might be to add the winners as > co-authors on the Internet-draft. In that case, the > draft boilerplate text says that you're following the IETF > IPR rules and hence would have filed an IPR declaration > if one was needed. And if none is needed, we'd be done. > > I'm sure we can figure other options but the above would > be easiest from the IETF point of view. > > Cheers, > S. > > On 03/11/15 11:56, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >> Congratulations btw on winning the competition! >> >> Kathleen and Stephen can confirm, but I believe you don't have to do >> anything in terms of adding any language in this case (no patent >> issued/sought, patent pending, etc.). When/if the document is adopted by >> the working group, the chair will request any disclosures. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Alex Biryukov <alex.biryukov@uni.lu> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We were not intending to patent it, so we can add a sentence about it. >>> Suggestions of lawyer-happy phrases are welcome. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe@cdt.org');>> wrote: >>> >>>> At IETF94 one question that came up in trying to move quickly to >>>> support Argon2 is the potential IPR that might be in Argon2. The code >>>> available now [1] is CC0 which, AFAICT, doesn't have any patent grant >>>> or implication for patents, etc., meaning the authors could still >>>> claim something, precluding it from use without a waiver (or whatever, >>>> IANAL) >>>> >>>> I'll CC the Argon2 authors (on the Argon2 spec [2]) here and see if we >>>> can clarify any potential IPR and whether that might affect using it >>>> in the future in OpenPGP. >>>> >>>> best, Joe >>>> >>>> [1]: https://github.com/p-h-c/phc-winner-argon2 >>>> [2]: https://password-hashing.net/argon2-specs.pdf >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org >>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','simon@josefsson.org');>> wrote: >>>>> Den Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:45:44 +0100 >>>>> skrev Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Daniel, >>>>>> >>>>>>> If we introduce this as a normative dependency for OpenPGP, though, >>>>>>> we might also want to have an IETF RFC for Argon2. Do you know of >>>>>>> anyone working on such a draft? >>>>>> >>>>>> Simon Josefsson has expressed interest in helping with that. >>>>>> @Simon: are you working on this? >>>>> >>>>> I started on an Argon2 draft but after talking to the Argon2 team we >>>>> decided to wait until Argon2 was finalized. I suppose now is a good >>>>> time to resume that work. I'll put something up on gitlab.com so >>>>> people can review and help. If anyone wants to help, please let me >>>>> know and we'll coordinate something. >>>>> >>>>> /Simon >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> openpgp mailing list >>>>> openpgp@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','openpgp@ietf.org');> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Joseph Lorenzo Hall >>>> Chief Technologist >>>> Center for Democracy & Technology >>>> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 >>>> Washington DC 20006-4011 >>>> (p) 202-407-8825 >>>> (f) 202-637-0968 >>>> joe@cdt.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe@cdt.org');> >>>> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key >>>> fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> --------------------------------- >>> Prof. Dr. Alex Biryukov, >>> FSTC/CSC, University of Luxembourg, >>> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, >>> L-1359 Luxembourg-Kirchberg >>> LUXEMBOURG >>> Tel: +352 46 66 44 6793 >>> Fax: +352 46 66 44 5500 >>> >> >>
- [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i ianG
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
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