Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Thu, 05 November 2015 08:50 UTC
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To: Dmitry Khovratovich <khovratovich@gmail.com>, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>
References: <5623AA95.4060903@googlemail.com> <874mh3q3ol.fsf@alice.fifthhorseman.net> <56385818.2000606@googlemail.com> <20151103092006.3cd3e900@latte.josefsson.org> <CABtrr-W_24_CumkdGuxW4Ve=NUA_7qa0v=utbaWN0CDoodhfpw@mail.gmail.com> <CADZ5=vtV20dMua+D0O_0Hc8OAXwv0ej-VnH=B2NMj2fZK23jpQ@mail.gmail.com> <CABtrr-XVhGitJVik96Xc3kRbUH8ZoGPArdaNoKgOZtK7fPGVCQ@mail.gmail.com> <563955F4.9030607@cs.tcd.ie> <87mvus26qp.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <1EE8655C-787C-47CB-BFC0-4DD5B1A4300E@gmail.com>
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:50:36 +0000
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Cc: Nils Durner <ndurner@googlemail.com>, Alex Biryukov <alex.biryukov@uni.lu>, "openpgp@ietf.org" <openpgp@ietf.org>, Daniel Dinu <dumitru-daniel.dinu@uni.lu>, Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org>
Subject: Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i
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Process-wise, I think the thing to do with this is to handle it as a cfrg draft. (I'll forward this there and as if they wanna adopt it.) Cheers, S On 05/11/15 08:32, Dmitry Khovratovich wrote: > Thank you, Simon! > > I will review your draft and give comments ASAP > > Dmitry > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Nov 5, 2015, at 09:25, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> wrote: >> >> We have now pushed out a -00 strawman on Argon2 in ID form: >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-argon2-00 >> >> I'm not happy with the explanation of the H' and G functions, and the >> permutation P (from BLAKE2b) and the indexing section are missing. >> Reference code in a higher-level language like python would be useful. >> If those things, and an ASN.1 schema is added, I believe the document >> would be good to go. >> >> We need to have an IETF discussion whether we are interested in the >> Argon2d non-side-channel safe variant. The Argon2 paper implies that >> the Argon2i side-channel safe variant is for "dangerous settings" where >> you need side-channel safety. For Internet use I believe we have >> already passed the point where we can ignore side-channel concerns, >> since they have been used in several successful attacks already. This >> could be resolved in the security considerations, but I'm concerned >> about giving people too much rope here. >> >> /Simon >> >> Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> writes: >> >>> Hiya, >>> >>> One way to handle this might be to add the winners as >>> co-authors on the Internet-draft. In that case, the >>> draft boilerplate text says that you're following the IETF >>> IPR rules and hence would have filed an IPR declaration >>> if one was needed. And if none is needed, we'd be done. >>> >>> I'm sure we can figure other options but the above would >>> be easiest from the IETF point of view. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> S. >>> >>>> On 03/11/15 11:56, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote: >>>> Congratulations btw on winning the competition! >>>> >>>> Kathleen and Stephen can confirm, but I believe you don't have to do >>>> anything in terms of adding any language in this case (no patent >>>> issued/sought, patent pending, etc.). When/if the document is adopted by >>>> the working group, the chair will request any disclosures. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Alex Biryukov <alex.biryukov@uni.lu> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> We were not intending to patent it, so we can add a sentence about it. >>>>> Suggestions of lawyer-happy phrases are welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Alex >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joe@cdt.org >>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe@cdt.org');>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> At IETF94 one question that came up in trying to move quickly to >>>>>> support Argon2 is the potential IPR that might be in Argon2. The code >>>>>> available now [1] is CC0 which, AFAICT, doesn't have any patent grant >>>>>> or implication for patents, etc., meaning the authors could still >>>>>> claim something, precluding it from use without a waiver (or whatever, >>>>>> IANAL) >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll CC the Argon2 authors (on the Argon2 spec [2]) here and see if we >>>>>> can clarify any potential IPR and whether that might affect using it >>>>>> in the future in OpenPGP. >>>>>> >>>>>> best, Joe >>>>>> >>>>>> [1]: https://github.com/p-h-c/phc-winner-argon2 >>>>>> [2]: https://password-hashing.net/argon2-specs.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org >>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','simon@josefsson.org');>> wrote: >>>>>>> Den Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:45:44 +0100 >>>>>>> skrev Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Daniel, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If we introduce this as a normative dependency for OpenPGP, though, >>>>>>>>> we might also want to have an IETF RFC for Argon2. Do you know of >>>>>>>>> anyone working on such a draft? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simon Josefsson has expressed interest in helping with that. >>>>>>>> @Simon: are you working on this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I started on an Argon2 draft but after talking to the Argon2 team we >>>>>>> decided to wait until Argon2 was finalized. I suppose now is a good >>>>>>> time to resume that work. I'll put something up on gitlab.com so >>>>>>> people can review and help. If anyone wants to help, please let me >>>>>>> know and we'll coordinate something. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /Simon >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> openpgp mailing list >>>>>>> openpgp@ietf.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','openpgp@ietf.org');> >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Joseph Lorenzo Hall >>>>>> Chief Technologist >>>>>> Center for Democracy & Technology >>>>>> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 >>>>>> Washington DC 20006-4011 >>>>>> (p) 202-407-8825 >>>>>> (f) 202-637-0968 >>>>>> joe@cdt.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','joe@cdt.org');> >>>>>> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key >>>>>> fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10 1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> --------------------------------- >>>>> Prof. Dr. Alex Biryukov, >>>>> FSTC/CSC, University of Luxembourg, >>>>> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi, >>>>> L-1359 Luxembourg-Kirchberg >>>>> LUXEMBOURG >>>>> Tel: +352 46 66 44 6793 >>>>> Fax: +352 46 66 44 5500 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >
- [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i ianG
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Nils Durner
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Peter Gutmann
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Werner Koch
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Stephen Farrell
- Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i Simon Josefsson
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