Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i

[Simon Josefsson <[e-mail]>]

We have now pushed out a -00 strawman on Argon2 in ID form:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-argon2-00

I'm not happy with the explanation of the H' and G functions, and the
permutation P (from BLAKE2b) and the indexing section are missing.
Reference code in a higher-level language like python would be useful.
If those things, and an ASN.1 schema is added, I believe the document
would be good to go.

We need to have an IETF discussion whether we are interested in the
Argon2d non-side-channel safe variant.  The Argon2 paper implies that
the Argon2i side-channel safe variant is for "dangerous settings" where
you need side-channel safety.  For Internet use I believe we have
already passed the point where we can ignore side-channel concerns,
since they have been used in several successful attacks already.  This
could be resolved in the security considerations, but I'm concerned
about giving people too much rope here.

/Simon

Stephen Farrell <[e-mail]> writes:

> Hiya,
>
> One way to handle this might be to add the winners as
> co-authors on the Internet-draft. In that case, the
> draft boilerplate text says that you're following the IETF
> IPR rules and hence would have filed an IPR declaration
> if one was needed. And if none is needed, we'd be done.
>
> I'm sure we can figure other options but the above would
> be easiest from the IETF point of view.
>
> Cheers,
> S.
>
> On 03/11/15 11:56, Joseph Lorenzo Hall wrote:
>> Congratulations btw on winning the competition!
>> 
>> Kathleen and Stephen can confirm, but I believe you don't have to do
>> anything in terms of adding any language in this case (no patent
>> issued/sought, patent pending, etc.). When/if the document is adopted by
>> the working group, the chair will request any disclosures.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2015, Alex Biryukov <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We were not intending to patent it, so we can add a sentence about it.
>>> Suggestions of lawyer-happy phrases are welcome.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <[e-mail]
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[e-mail]');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At IETF94 one question that came up in trying to move quickly to
>>>> support Argon2 is the potential IPR that might be in Argon2. The code
>>>> available now [1] is CC0 which, AFAICT, doesn't have any patent grant
>>>> or implication for patents, etc., meaning the authors could still
>>>> claim something, precluding it from use without a waiver (or whatever,
>>>> IANAL)
>>>>
>>>> I'll CC the Argon2 authors (on the Argon2 spec [2]) here and see if we
>>>> can clarify any potential IPR and whether that might affect using it
>>>> in the future in OpenPGP.
>>>>
>>>> best, Joe
>>>>
>>>> [1]: https://github.com/p-h-c/phc-winner-argon2
>>>> [2]: https://password-hashing.net/argon2-specs.pdf
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Simon Josefsson <[e-mail]
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[e-mail]');>> wrote:
>>>>> Den Tue, 3 Nov 2015 07:45:44 +0100
>>>>> skrev Re: [openpgp] [PATCH] RFC4880bis: Argon2i:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Daniel,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we introduce this as a normative dependency for OpenPGP, though,
>>>>>>> we might also want to have an IETF RFC for Argon2.  Do you know of
>>>>>>> anyone working on such a draft?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Simon Josefsson has expressed interest in helping with that.
>>>>>> @Simon: are you working on this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I started on an Argon2 draft but after talking to the Argon2 team we
>>>>> decided to wait until Argon2 was finalized.  I suppose now is a good
>>>>> time to resume that work.  I'll put something up on gitlab.com so
>>>>> people can review and help.  If anyone wants to help, please let me
>>>>> know and we'll coordinate something.
>>>>>
>>>>> /Simon
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> openpgp mailing list
>>>>> [e-mail] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[e-mail]');>
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joseph Lorenzo Hall
>>>> Chief Technologist
>>>> Center for Democracy & Technology
>>>> 1634 I ST NW STE 1100
>>>> Washington DC 20006-4011
>>>> (p) 202-407-8825
>>>> (f) 202-637-0968
>>>> [e-mail] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[e-mail]');>
>>>> PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
>>>> fingerprint: 3CA2 8D7B 9F6D DBD3 4B10  1607 5F86 6987 40A9 A871
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Prof. Dr. Alex Biryukov,
>>> FSTC/CSC, University of Luxembourg,
>>> 6, rue Richard Coudenhove-Kalergi,
>>> L-1359 Luxembourg-Kirchberg
>>> LUXEMBOURG
>>> Tel:  [phone]
>>> Fax: [phone]
>>>
>> 
>>