Re: [openpgp] "OpenPGP Simple"

Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Sun, 22 March 2015 15:48 UTC

Return-Path: <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
X-Original-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB371A8A7C for <openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.21
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zeH95qUwrjaf for <openpgp@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx2.auckland.ac.nz (mx2.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.125.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D67551A8A1B for <openpgp@ietf.org>; Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=auckland.ac.nz; i=@auckland.ac.nz; q=dns/txt; s=uoa; t=1427039302; x=1458575302; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=xwl/9FXT7VbgRA3DjeoxB1TBlkeANe+0ebNNuuJpvig=; b=QYaiacVmZjx8PvE2guN3eSFOGwGpsgQjxJzYZKKljMH0XrzmjOyo4jAn T8AweiBLtMC58Y8cn3EmeX5fEN7xk3Lk+t7V/zhpNryGmv45icbApujrK LKJOBd5eOKobQJKaZ1IWGwnn3PFdsQxSrgx/U7wh2HPvWNBG3j/5gpMcx A=;
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.11,446,1422874800"; d="scan'208";a="315631989"
X-Ironport-HAT: MAIL-SERVERS - $RELAYED
X-Ironport-Source: 130.216.4.112 - Outgoing - Outgoing
Received: from uxchange10-fe1.uoa.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) by mx2-int.auckland.ac.nz with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 23 Mar 2015 04:48:19 +1300
Received: from UXCN10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([169.254.5.82]) by uxchange10-fe1.UoA.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.4.112]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 23 Mar 2015 04:48:18 +1300
From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz>
To: "openpgp@ietf.org" <openpgp@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [openpgp] "OpenPGP Simple"
Thread-Index: AdBkt52PnuT6ijpBTwa2qKg8mG4pgg==
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 15:48:17 +0000
Message-ID: <9A043F3CF02CD34C8E74AC1594475C73AAFB9A25@uxcn10-5.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-NZ
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [130.216.158.4]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/openpgp/gC4hiY_DppyTYNnVY1Hcp4bLl6s>
Subject: Re: [openpgp] "OpenPGP Simple"
X-BeenThere: openpgp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Ongoing discussion of OpenPGP issues." <openpgp.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/openpgp>, <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/openpgp/>
List-Post: <mailto:openpgp@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/openpgp>, <mailto:openpgp-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 15:48:24 -0000

Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> writes:

>A CA has signed an intermediate CA cert which is loaded in an interception
>appliance.  You blacklist this certificate by ID. Your blacklisting is
>bypassed by simply changing the encoding of the  when sending the cert chain
>and now your traffic can be intercepted again.

This issue has been known for a long, long time (well, I guess not by the
OpenSSL authors :-).  The problem is its being tied to a blacklist-based
security mechanism, you can always evade the blacklist through trivial
encoding changes that produce a valid but not bit-for-bit identical encoding.

Since all of PKI is built around blacklists (the second dumbest idea in
computer security, and arguably a special case of the dumbest idea in computer
security, default-allow), the PKIX folks argued that using certificate
fingerprints to uniquely identify a cert wasn't allowed because it broke their
blacklist/default-allow based approach to things.

As a result, they identify certs via their serial numbers (so a CRL isn't
really a CRL but a SNRL, a serial-number revocation list).  So now, instead of
a single easily-identified problem (trivially fixed by not relying on
blacklists for security), you have a whole raft of problems, many of them
still waiting to be discovered.

In other words the PKIX approach is to decide on a wrong solution
(blacklists), and then to break other things (certificate IDs) in order to
perpetuate the wrong solution.

Peter.