Re: [Ospf-wireless-design] Design Team slides for IETF 63

[Richard Ogier <[e-mail]>]

Tony Przygienda wrote:

> Henderson, Thomas R wrote:
>
>> All,
>> The design team is not meeting in Paris, due to lack of a quorum.  Acee
>> Lindem agreed to present the attached slides at the OSPF and MANET WG
>> meetings.  Any comments? 
>
So, we currently have only one solution that scales to 100 nodes (and 
probably
to 300 nodes). So I wonder why the slides say the design team is
"struggling" to reach consensus on a single approach.
First of all, the design team needs to carefully read the proposals and
simulation results, and comment on them.  I am eager to answer questions
regarding my draft.  Suggestions for enhancements are also welcome.

Regarding the "Smart Peering" draft by Roy et al. Is the plan to allow
time for this new idea (which by the way is closely related to my
definition of a "routable" neighbor) to be developed into a fine tuned
implementation?  If this idea can be demonstrated in a short time, then
it might be worth considering.  But we have already delayed the decision
by several months, so I think we need to avoid dragging on indefinitely.

We need people to read and understand both proposals (including the
"Smart Peering"), and to discuss them here.  For example, I could discuss
why the MDR approach is more attractive than the Smart Peering approach
because adjacencies are aligned with (Backup) MDRs, just as adjacencies
are aligned with the (Backup) DR in OSPF.
In other words, the MDR approach is a more natural extension of OSPF.
We could also compare the performance, depending on how long it would take
to get Smart Peering to perform well.

To avoid further delays, until there is some evidence that Smart Peering
results in a solution that is as efficient and scalable as the MDR approach,
I would like to focus on improving the MDR draft. To that end, I welcome
your comments, suggestions, and questions.

One more comment below.


>>
>>  
>>
> From my meta-feeling and observation of proposals/discussion 
> frequency, methodology
> used, I think you are at the point where you should open your results 
> to a wider forum.
>
>> Currently, we have two fairly mature proposals for how to do OSPF MANET
>> extensions, and one public implementation of each.  As for next steps,
>> you will see a statement in the charts that we have not yet achieved
>> consensus.  Acee indicated his preference to let the design team run for
>> one more cycle, possibly augmented by discussion on the regular MANET
>> and OSPF WG lists.  Are there comments on this proposed approach?
>>  
>>
> Again, I think you should release the software to a wider audience and 
> let people run their
> scenarios and provide you with results. This should give you  a good 
> indication what the
> consensus on the two proposals or a variation thereof should be beside 
> purely technical
> points that you seem have shaken out roughly and do seem to have a 
> struggle merging
> (again, from my understanding so far the two have different strengths 
> depending
> on the scenario assumed).  Then, IMHO you will be able to progress to 
> spec-stage work.

I don't think a major merging of the solutions would be appropriate or
beneficial, and it would cause further delay.  From page 10 of Tom's
presentation, both drafts perform comparably when full adjacencies are used
(which only allows scalability to about 50 nodes), but the MDR approach 
(which
uses partial adjacencies) scales to well over 100 nodes.
So I am not sure there is a scenario in which the overlapping relay
(OR) approach performs better.  However, I am open to incorporating
ideas from the other drafts into the MDR draft, as appropriate.  (In fact,
the MDR draft already incorporates the LLS and multicast ACK techniques that
were first used in the OR draft.)

Richard


>
>
>    --- tony
>
>
>
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