Re: [Pesci-discuss] Driving proposals

John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Thu, 10 November 2005 17:44 UTC

Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EaGT6-0004er-RP; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:44:12 -0500
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EaGT5-0004em-4U for pesci-discuss@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:44:11 -0500
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA21022 for <pesci-discuss@ietf.org>; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:43:42 -0500 (EST)
Received: from ns.jck.com ([209.187.148.211] helo=bs.jck.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaGjK-0001cg-6O for pesci-discuss@ietf.org; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 13:00:59 -0500
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EaGT2-0003Zw-IU; Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:44:08 -0500
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:43:59 -0500
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: Re: [Pesci-discuss] Driving proposals
Message-ID: <493D39201DE093C2DD4CE5E8@as-s2n.ietf64.ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <4373862F.5040107@dcrocker.net>
References: <A504D37F23F3DDC12B8072FE@as-s2n.ietf64.ietf.org> <4373862F.5040107@dcrocker.net>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: pesci-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Process Evolution Study Committee of the IETF discussion <pesci-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/pesci-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:pesci-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss>, <mailto:pesci-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: pesci-discuss-bounces@ietf.org


--On Thursday, November 10, 2005 09:41 -0800 Dave Crocker 
<dhc@dcrocker.net> wrote:

>...
> A technical proposal has a target user population "out there"
> in the public community.
>
> A process proposal has a target user population right here,
> since our shared environment.
>
> Whereas a technical proposal can succeed even if it is
> marginalized among the rest of the IETF community, a process
> proposal cannot.
>
> When the leadership of the IETF demonstrates, at best, benign
> neglect of significant change effort, it simply will not
> happen.

At the risk of further extending the recent harmony, I 
completely agree with Dave's analysis.

    john


_______________________________________________
Pesci-discuss mailing list
Pesci-discuss@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pesci-discuss