Re: Take multipath to a BoF

Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com> Wed, 07 October 2020 15:15 UTC

Return-Path: <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E3F3A0A24 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.848
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.848 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qwvynWNPq5Wo for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com (mail-ed1-x52c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4486F3A0A0B for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 33so2527126edq.13 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=XyVjg7M8KZRf3Sw5cUTCw7hhMs+zPdRjvGu+lLbsyHk=; b=C0knHznOd4hxQ1zRurP+qywE5FCNq8m290eZJVSmA1XTDz0FHrZzj5cgWe/+KezgYk sGslitiSA3GxUdmsWB6vHg1G779S/VH2T2med7cwOHUHnXp4lAZR6h1DLQhDedoNxe/Q aqQekJxQVQDyFC2YfwqsGZ5XTu+nK857XwrYMihPmNT9o1YvNFDHaTv+a9pOSA2uxoMR nFHSLyX6dtaL5CDSVc8np5GQXtGrMyc3J2S6xmktLfFmFcxhmu+1MUKpSLNN8+Y7PtDh s/LxhAk4OHgLRk3apKDwOhIZMAgw4fHYUUstmA1wSgY+K2CIl+FsA9RtgFvYT3N7UPUz QxrA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XyVjg7M8KZRf3Sw5cUTCw7hhMs+zPdRjvGu+lLbsyHk=; b=Y9wcwMG883oiIn3L9PCk7GTEko6IUZCHj+BypnuSihVDucKuVTxUj61IPJohIoPkNE Sd7B0InmOmHLMUbS3YBSHyIq6j2449r3eyeU2Dnw6Undl7A8mpenQTEtXR2ch8NKb30r kMoteH3BBKNzWo0TC/IqQ8P4xQJUOHgyP6XnJ42L8BoWWeyTozUmOJ3wAukNt6qotc/0 xHA6epDm/xz2uG+ILkMiv3xlGTy7ef7nBTfYXd1ZAD1OWF2V42qaaX+SzJTcLxX7EkQT /2XjLgHSHLadQ8e6oKtwgjYiKL1Chl7rFzzLGonTdCADSDsnmA1ytJFWIYzQ7HDq3UMw lnTA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530QAy26dNRRMFuy1ATsUSjcPsqNVN+3HsqcAGLRjasBEmH2xV5Q gnemMEnKboZFJ9ZM0ntDUgzA7jAGLmDN3vEbWabV8P0SsaVVQH6W
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyfv7/IUqlap8outnIM+xWYCLz62USPzYGQmvWGfFdsTRETsc0NNLqU0ztJbz5rEgkowaTnKwslr42dIlNWA1s=
X-Received: by 2002:a50:ce06:: with SMTP id y6mr4145450edi.273.1602083715701; Wed, 07 Oct 2020 08:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <f7dcea59-985c-4e31-b743-36315f2cb7e3@www.fastmail.com> <E2C884AC-5FC8-46B9-B879-F5A0B6F53C14@ericsson.com> <CAKKJt-eK0rZw5MEoUkoEuFHJd2g5kTF5+y9CaR3iSvj3SW4x_g@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-eK0rZw5MEoUkoEuFHJd2g5kTF5+y9CaR3iSvj3SW4x_g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:15:04 +0100
Message-ID: <CALGR9obwi_xqEs1uXwa-QknREM4HPd=Dk-r+0ZYpWg=B4yk84Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Take multipath to a BoF
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c6676205b1162ed7"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/-49bOHVuLZI6-q0eX5UmiOUV9qs>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 15:15:20 -0000

Hey Spencer,

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 3:30 PM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> The other reason a BOF would make sense, IMO, is to find out whether
> people are willing to work on something that's not already chartered, but
> QUIC is already chartered to work on multipath.
>

To tug on this thread a little and speak as an individual. I find the
charter pretty light on detail wrt multipath. Yes it is mentioned but
AFAICT the capability has complexity of implementation and deployment that
is at least on par with any of the other standalone focus areas. Each of
those has a pararaph with some even leaning on other groups' definitions.
In contrast, multipath has scant information for what is in scope of
discussion or not. How can people say decisively what they signed up for?

It is also unclear to me how multipath relates to our other deliverables of
Applicability and Manageability drafts. Do those get held up, or does
MPQUIC get its own equivalent?

Without the WG agreed on the problem statement and use cases, I can forsee
future challenges if divisive topics come up. We've seen instances through
the course of QUIC interop and design iteration where an issue has come up
and there have been multiple competing options. We've been able to overcome
those, in part, because we can fall back on the charter's key goals of
"minimizing connection establishment and overall transport latency for
applications" and "Providing multiplexing without head-of-line blocking",
and the secondary goals or constraints in each paragraph.

Do those key goals apply equally to MP-QUIC? I've asked this in other
threads and the response has seemed to indicate that uptime and bandwidth
is more important...


>
>