[rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lacking inclusive? word replacement process
Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Mon, 12 September 2022 18:22 UTC
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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2022 20:21:51 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
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Subject: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lacking inclusive? word replacement process
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I am just in AUTH48 and being asked to replace the use of the word "native" with something "less problematic". [ Excurse: I also had a significant run-in when using this word in a BoF @IETF114, especially in reference to a very common use of "native IP Multicast" that was created as a phrase around the use of IP Multicast in the 1990th to promote an evolution from an overlay network (MBone) to one where IP Multicast was running "natively" on the routers of the network (with PIM). And back then, we printed hundreds of t-shirt and mugs with that theme. Now, i also got a great run-down of how even dangerous the use of the word "native" with any context may be in Africa these days (from Andrew Alston) unless you know you are entitled to use it - which typically you can assume you never are. ] Now, my worries is that i looked through the use of "native <foobar>" in RFC and found that out of 990 rfc8xxx.txt, 113 had occurrences of "native <foobar>", wich a total number of 487 instances. For earlier and later blocks of 1000 RFC, numbers are quite similar, and had peaked in rfc6???.txt (> 700 occurrences). In other words: "native" is a crucial classifier for a lot of technical terms that we use, used over long periods of time, and even if we changed any individual instance now, anybody who would be looked for older documents use would still need to know to look for "native". And worst yet: When you do know the old use of "native <foobar>", and you try to find an equipment term that is "less problemativ" now, you are lost - because we have no normative / recommended replacements for it. At least i am not aware of any such tracking of replacements (please give me an IETF URL - please none of those endless URL chains to other organizations that end nowhere!). This lack of tracking of replacements and building consensus FOR OUR COMMUNITY for as few as possible alternative replacments is IMHO a mayor IETF editorial problem/challenge, and i do not understand why rfc-editor is not tackling this by creating such a tracking for replacement terms. On the basis of this problem not being tackled, i am of the belief that as authors, one should resist asks for replacment words, in the hope that this helps to elevate the problem so that RFC editor will better tackle this replacemenet problem. Unless of course one does have as an author (or better yet of course as a WG) a replacement term one is technically persuaded to be better. Which in my case i didn't have in my last 2021 RFC where this problem occurred but which i may have for my auth48 rfc now because i am referring to a new term that the document makes up (more freedom of choosing a term).
- [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lacking in… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Joel Halpern
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Ronald Tse
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Lars Eggert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Jean Mahoney
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Jean Mahoney
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Jean Mahoney
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Salz, Rich
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Lars Eggert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Randy Bush
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Salz, Rich
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Donald Eastlake
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] [rfc-interest] Concerned about lackin… Robert Sparks
- [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-interest]… Lars Eggert
- Re: [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-inter… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-inter… Michael Richardson
- Re: [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-inter… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-inter… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [rfc-i] Terminology wiki (was: Re: [rfc-inter… Paul Kyzivat