Re: [Rfced-future] Comments on draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 01 March 2022 19:53 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4064F3A0BD4; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:53:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.109
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.109 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKEO-1qhjBI1; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:53:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com (mail-pf1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D09B63A0969; Tue, 1 Mar 2022 11:53:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id k1so4761324pfu.2; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 11:53:07 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=6LCprQMNEFkoowbMtUvQbzjpaYJlL+46ASZqAtRDcis=; b=UdmauVHOiMvSFt2HtvvU6hn1CNaHV6FaVQ2o6XbSISBFNkG7Xe5duH7sBqveGLffCw kePzwNzgZRWRXIr6tgKdGnEdYAn2rbLFA/taegn93S6trixkvR9k4Ss4Ot8WeygkD7Vo ydA+2ObshZtRK/On616GI6WQBbl6et/IHXoCyw8SKQ2JjEZDT8gKgjyc/RR9KE/wco8o hahKHl/stOhnQGRonI7x/904MA+/rfVI3ap5QlhPrssXvvezOaiv4QnIT+V5PCo1jyd8 QRW6gZlxLqRqbcIAbl3gy5eDqwtaAz4MpUOFynhOM9nXCc+Thlssrm7GZdcU5g0V9iKA HuCw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6LCprQMNEFkoowbMtUvQbzjpaYJlL+46ASZqAtRDcis=; b=xajkLLq/p8k11p69LlnPn3uyvMXQB+bj2MYYDo+uGD8kF4jXL6MNZ0RTqDZshpMvpL 0Bxs5h1+NBXlOK/0BQqEDIhbLfbJZG3fFSHsBRyvXpFsi3hj+xUeLvkhJQQFoIyh9xl5 Gnm/2isGoFSrLZIStw5uIiYsyZCd3xIxF8KDyfSHDVCVGyexMWEIhNIfepZCFpuJlrf8 7+7sn9y2Q8MhwgiaVHDbGaw6y8DxbeuK8VBnlpDVhtI+VwGPS3Qb2RdIvfjdQLpZ1ixR v1Uegnk/N6wIEUb7aJOJgaBLldfh6C0hPzmP8AM62knDhnLcLirv4eSpYUHKR0/95rCM npLg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530TXXWHe/E3SRGCOSFLhIkoooPhLLk0H2EnPYm5MmRiLkAUm83W AMealmtRvgNikrLuf4V9S48Hsntu0XwXYA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwsQWM6h9st47nrsW0++kQN3jY6c6DBDjnHd7HZD3/YVA9PrXslRzXXCBwy4rHBgPLyoIEisQ==
X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8d08:0:b0:4e1:5fb5:b15 with SMTP id j8-20020aa78d08000000b004e15fb50b15mr29002130pfe.70.1646164386843; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 11:53:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431? ([2406:e003:1005:b501:80b2:5c79:2266:e431]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 142-20020a621894000000b004dfc714b076sm18451947pfy.11.2022.03.01.11.53.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Mar 2022 11:53:06 -0800 (PST)
To: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: "rfced-future@iab.org" <rfced-future@iab.org>, Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@icann.org>, "iab@iab.org" <iab@iab.org>, Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
References: <74AF211B-741E-46FC-9E35-8015D5254515@icann.org> <f55fba34-c449-8566-0423-147fc1fa3363@lear.ch> <0c1711fe-bc05-e6b0-2f94-eb1c24ae3766@stpeter.im> <CABcZeBPqGHt0KD4tjQZFd7SVRwQHVa7fj7wJ_LYCn-3XQKjfjg@mail.gmail.com> <de6c4153-ebed-47e2-7657-3ad7f917dd73@stpeter.im>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2b400d58-5985-016f-e722-2b61df64e146@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:53:01 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <de6c4153-ebed-47e2-7657-3ad7f917dd73@stpeter.im>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/-105PrbG-Q-8TWNr7LGdDPVZF-I>
Subject: Re: [Rfced-future] Comments on draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 19:53:13 -0000


Regards
    Brian Carpenter

On 02-Mar-22 07:52, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> On 3/1/22 11:45 AM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 10:36 AM Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im
>> <mailto:stpeter@stpeter.im>> wrote:
>>
>>      On 2/10/22 7:42 AM, Eliot Lear wrote:
>>       > Hi Paul,
>>       >
>>       >
>>       > On 09.02.22 17:46, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>       >> Greetings again. The structures proposed in this document seem
>>      like a
>>       >> very good way forward. The level of detail about the
>>      expectations on
>>       >> each group is a good balance in prescriptiveness.
>>       >>
>>       >> Two small thoughts on the current draft:
>>       >>
>>       >> The future status of the rfc-interest mailing list is unclear; see
>>       >> Section 3.2.3. Given it s current contents, I could see that it
>>      would
>>       >> easily become a parallel track for discussions that should be 
on
>>      the
>>       >> RSWG mailing list. It might be good to close (and certainly
>>      archive!)
>>       >> rfc-interest unless it becomes more moderated by someone pointing
>>       >> discussions to the RSWG.
>>       >
>>       > I like the idea of at least having some RSWG participation to point
>>       > people to the right place, when necessary.
>>
>>      Keeping the rfc-interest list and starting a new list for the RSWG
>>      might
>>      indeed lead to confusion.
>>
>>      Here is a proposed change:
>>
>>      OLD
>>
>>           The RSAB seeks
>>           such input by, at a minimum, sending a notice to the rfc-interest
>>           mailing list or to its successor or future equivalent.
>>
>>      NEW
>>
>>           The RSAB seeks
>>           such input by, at a minimum, sending a notice to the mailing
>>      list of
>>           the RSWG (which should supersede the current rfc-interest list).
>>
>>
>> I actually don't agree with this. I think the WG should have a separate list
>> that is moderated by the chairs. The rfc-interest list can continue, but
>> I think the new model deserves a new list.
> 
> Can we specify (at a high level) what topics are appropriate for
> rfc-interest as opposed to the RSWG list? Would we envision that rfc-i
> is more for implementers? We already have a plethora of lists (rfc-i,
> tools-discuss, xml2rfc-dev, etc.) and it's already unclear where certain
> topics should be discussed.

Please not. I don't think we should cover such operational details at all.
(Do you realise that RFC2026 refers to anonymous FTP and gopher?)

How about being *less* specific:

           The RSAB seeks
           such input by, at a minimum, sending a notice to relevant
           mailing lists.

    Brian