Re: [Rfced-future] [rfc-i] RSWG & AUTH48 (was Re: [admin-discuss] Public archival of AUTH48 communications)

Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net> Thu, 03 March 2022 00:15 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B02B3A0FCB for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2022 16:15:02 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RKHBiQH6dkIX for <rfced-future@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 2 Mar 2022 16:14:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 335B33A0FBD for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2022 16:14:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from xse125.mail2web.com ([66.113.196.125] helo=xse.mail2web.com) by mx256.antispamcloud.com with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1nPZ7M-000NEv-FX for rfced-future@iab.org; Thu, 03 Mar 2022 01:14:54 +0100
Received: from xsmtp22.mail2web.com (unknown [10.100.68.61]) by xse.mail2web.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4K8BLx5x9BzBrG for <rfced-future@iab.org>; Wed, 2 Mar 2022 16:14:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.5.2.15] (helo=xmail05.myhosting.com) by xsmtp22.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1nPZ7J-0003Ft-N4 for rfced-future@iab.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2022 16:14:49 -0800
Received: (qmail 25455 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2022 00:14:49 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.105]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.58.43.208]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail05.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; 3 Mar 2022 00:14:49 -0000
Message-ID: <269b5f09-4840-b038-085c-839e0a1c3c6b@huitema.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2022 16:14:48 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.6.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, rfced-future@iab.org, RFC Interest <rfc-interest@rfc-editor.org>
References: <164574145917.13799.12710132950530774405@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+9kkMC+vkyMPbt755Bu0cZHfmY-Pz6CdU1-J+8sBa8cPkA0dg@mail.gmail.c om> <CABcZeBMeRFOU+az=b8QJmD+-4GHivwZenMHEXsrbnamuoEmwEA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9kkMAg_xbTODu=UE288uxTVhL=+r18p5ywC6ZGaUvpyXO8bA@mail.gmail.c om> <7C442BD6-F634-4129-9764-1BE29382D629@att.com> <8129A65C40CD88E0B5C94AA8@PSB> <7BC3F808-434B-48CF-B96B-0CF7D8B9F3A7@tzi.org> <EEF0F457622EDF74E090BC66@PSB> <BEB26FE0-CC24-4EC2-B7E5-6556A2425A24@eggert.org> <11721.1646248947@localhost> <af3a9d13-7ec2-4e48-355a-a3870af06361@joelhalpern.com> <a52626d5-13aa-ab1a-cb13-282bd9bcf812@gmail.com>
From: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
In-Reply-To: <a52626d5-13aa-ab1a-cb13-282bd9bcf812@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Originating-IP: 66.113.196.125
X-Spampanel-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Username: 66.113.196.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=66.113.196.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-Spampanel-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15)
X-Recommended-Action: accept
X-Filter-ID: Pt3MvcO5N4iKaDQ5O6lkdGlMVN6RH8bjRMzItlySaT9WLQux0N3HQm8ltz8rnu+BPUtbdvnXkggZ 3YnVId/Y5jcf0yeVQAvfjHznO7+bT5yXEnUqtuiszqcStXlDoE9S53HEEk0VSrq03gtFxbC/KoVF kDAWTeLNwqPRgRwHiENizSh2f1rWsE3ZhyRR3OEySxIRXVMlFuiz/acFNeeXtxN2fFxZWB9eYgpR BRu3UlDHMLIJYRi1cXH9Dbm+IxLV6nEMLpv52qIFdDFnq6/4WZotTbzF8bFslzcWfB/84WXr3obc i1BDUx+cEdj2Yf5+kVWClPVvbW5lVyQanRxw5hTHswbbB/ha+ZWrSAi8SkwqWAikMcSxTAWn8RCv ieGEqjG/gXZAaRh1X6LVetRf2ZYIiHqfCgG4wrA3w4/kQTYKxDHA9JN9J4k4XZq11JQkMemT4rxn nByU11Ftkqf3f/PF3GUV+KdBBqrnCX8j0Gi8Ksk+aedMfNWSnJswrtlNtZo3HPHi5Q+jjsF5dcBx ehWYzrkgsp4/Fysgb2cPV4IH0+lPwKr4i5mAANUcVraZYOaeuiH/yEdZH8S1+TgcJBOjh0vPxcQO jKKOrYIQYpwamUdylUIKhf3z2GAHxH7IBAaAB9SiL80iwHtGBZiikjTur3/Ubw75F414tOprxl1m 162xpr2YWjzU667qQ/8QKK8qgoX3qtqBY7olcAAV8pXloqisSitb6n6JVjosdW/TulJRptMnEIdG JW7dfhGq92PNDpgLsd6Ddd/s7VM53i37WhQdXvVpy8aZywOdpzwOtp+q3yU+z72+fnpodgpDHGra /OJsU+i9k2RRgjMkmPtscTHvusbPgGPQ0jHrv65mMRr+w2X69ygMahiTQMBdlUcQ9Klq1KHfnNqM F6ZC5voPFZIShBSdpVJW5HbjQTCUIzbw71BPKv8cPtVshTSLr6YHJu91A3avrF49rf9JcoEpejCA XczArXyV+OFXiMtbLPp9n350Mbemie5JWWm/MpxAyl4q1x5O0+PBD/gPmWjXVA9S7TnWXDlmMpVd cwCFwrnT0GQK/7labXRdXAB+MS+4ayUpOtEhdxekWDmK9g==
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine11.antispamcloud.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/FNDTGHw3bb8knVpw5MQ3HHu71aA>
Subject: Re: [Rfced-future] [rfc-i] RSWG & AUTH48 (was Re: [admin-discuss] Public archival of AUTH48 communications)
X-BeenThere: rfced-future@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: RFC Editor Future Development Program <rfced-future.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfced-future/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfced-future@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/rfced-future>, <mailto:rfced-future-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 00:15:03 -0000

On 3/2/2022 12:31 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:

> Joel's concern is reasonable but I think the boundary between policy and
> operations will always be hard to fix precisely.
>
> That said, I slightly disagree with Lars. It's *exactly* because the
> policy requirements might differ between streams that the RSWG/RSAB
> structure is the right place to discuss this. To be specific, the
> lack of public debate about non-editorial changes at AUTH48 is of
> real concern in the IETF standards process, but might be considered
> a non-issue for the Independent Stream. And the desired settings might
> be different for the other three streams (including the new Editorial
> stream). That - public debate during AUTH48 - would be a policy issue.
> The details of which mailing lists and/or version management systems
> are used is operational. 

The request to make AUTH48  discussions public is rooted in the standard 
making requirements. RFCs coming out of the IETF streams are standard 
documents. The process must be fully transparent, if only to avoid 
appearances of last minute backroom dealing. The responsibility for 
ensuring the requiring transparency is squarely on the IESG and the IETF 
chair, not on the RSWG/RSAB or the RPC.

-- Christian Huitema