Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Directorate
Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk> Tue, 08 June 2010 15:18 UTC
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Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:18:18 +0100
To: Bruce Davie <bdavie@cisco.com>
From: Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Directorate
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Bruce, At 00:19 08/06/2010, Bruce Davie wrote: >Bob, > I think we're still figuring out the rules of engagement > here...let me see if we can converge. > Here is what I said to Lars about creating this directorate: > > > > [...] I want to make a concrete suggestion that might help > address your concern going forward. I talked with Bob Braden, > Scott, and Francois about the formation of an "RSVP directorate". I > think we could assemble say 5 people, and those people would make a > commitment to perform the tasks mentioned above (read drafts, > comment on their suitability for adoption, review and comment) and > also beat the bushes to get more people to review and comment on > drafts. I truly think that the BOF has lit a fire under the people > who care about RSVP, which is why you're seeing people like Allain > from SFR and Sanjay from Espial being more forthcoming than usual. > In any case, while we can't change the past, the BOF sure seemed to > me to suggest we can't shut down RSVP work at the IETF right now > without ignoring the wishes of the folks who came to the BoF and spoke. > > >So, as I see it, the first job of the directorate is to review >drafts that have been proposed for adoption, i.e., the 3 drafts that >I mentioned below. > >You seem to be saying "why should the directorate waste its time >reviewing drafts if the authors can't make the case that they are >solving a problem that matters to someone, or will matter in the future". >And I will grant you that the 3 drafts under consideration right now >don't do a great job of making that case. So, how about I approach >the authors and ask them for a paragraph or two to justify our >reviewing cycles, along the lines of what you have said below. Thanks Bruce. That's exactly what I'm saying. Except I don't expect them to write this sort of stuff actually in the drafts (drafts should normally only contain timeless info). But I would expect such motivation in a presentation or an email to the list at the point where WG draft is requested. I looked and it wasn't there (at a first pass at least). When I ask for one of my drafts to become a w-g item, I am always expected to provide such info. So I want these guys to jump the same hoops we all have to. >My hope is that they next time these guys show up at an IETF and >present their drafts, they can at least have a few people who will >admit to having read the drafts. Certainly. Cheers Bob >Bruce > > >On Jun 7, 2010, at 1:29 PM, Bob Briscoe wrote: > > > Bruce, > > > > Perhaps there's a misunderstanding... > > > > Yes, I'm sure the authors want them to be WG drafts. And I'm sure > the drafts are technically interesting enough. > > > > But I'm asking for the motivations from the authors that > justifies why they think each draft is suitable to take IETF time > as a WG draft (and our directorate reviewing time). > > > > In your original email, you gave nice outlines of *what* each > draft is about, and we've all seen the presentations. But none of > the presentations or the nice text capsules answer questions like: > > > > - This is needed for new applications w & x that are becoming > important in the defence and the enterprise sectors > > - and yes, another way to do it is already standardised, but this > new approach saves y amount of messages compared to approach z that > we already have, > > - and n organisations/customers have said they would be > interested in this being standardised and will contribute reviews. > > - or we admit no-one has said they would be interested, but it > will provide a new fundamental capability that will enable p,q and > r that people would not even be able to imagine they might want > unless we standardse it. > > > > ie, stuff specific to each doc, that satisfies the concerns that > led to the creation of this directorate in the first place. > > > > > > Bob > > > > At 18:48 04/06/2010, Bruce Davie wrote: > >> Bob, > >> The RSVP directorate will not, of course, decide the fate of > these documents. Our job is to review documents and advise the TSV > ADs and TSVWG chairs. I'm just trying to jump start that process, > so that when the authors show up at TSVWG, (a) the chairs will be > able to say whether it's even worth the time of the WG to hear a > presentation on the draft (b) there will be at least a couple of > people in the audience who have read the drafts. > >> > >> For the record, all 3 of the drafts mentioned below were > presented at IETF 76. The authors have asked that they be taken on > as TSVWG items. > >> > >> Bruce > >> > >> On Jun 4, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Bob Briscoe wrote: > >> > >> > Bruce, > >> > > >> > Will take a look. > >> > > >> > A process break point.... for a draft to be adopted by a > working group, the authors have to present it (possibly a couple of > times) then justify to the WG why it is ready to be adopted as a WG > item. Shouldn't we raise a similar bar for these drafts, rather > than pick up "a few drafts floating around"? > >> > > >> > We have probably all seen these presented (tho I personally > haven't been in CCAMP so I will have missed narayanan). But I'd now > like to see the authors justify to us why they are ready to be WG > items, against the criteria established recently. > >> > > >> > Is this fair? > >> > > >> > > >> > Bob > >> > > >> > At 17:41 04/06/2010, Bruce Davie wrote: > >> >> Folks, > >> >> There are a few drafts floating around that I think we should > take a look at and make a recommendation to the ADs regarding their > suitability for the TSVWG. These drafts are: > >> >> > >> >> draft-narayanan-tsvwg-rsvp-resource-sharing-02 > >> >> > >> >> draft-lefaucheur-tsvwg-rsvp-multiple-preemption-02.txt > >> >> draft-polk-tsvwg-intserv-multiple-tspec-03.txt > >> >> > >> >> The first one seems pretty non-controversial. Here are > comments from the author: > >> >> > > >> >> > draft-narayanan-tsvwg-rsvp-resource-sharing-02 is now a > companion draft to draft-berger-ccamp-assoc-info-01, and contains > only the RSVP-CAC-specific part of the resource sharing thingy. > Given that TSVWG is the place for RSVP CAC extensions, yes, I would > think TSVWG is the place for it. It's a very small draft basically > defining a new codepoint (Resource Sharing Remote-ID Association) > with a small behavioural change (only treat this Association-ID as > binding on the Resv, not on the Path), so I don't envision any > significant backpressure of the form "this is not a small change to RSVP". > >> >> > >> >> I would like to recommend that this be made a TSVWG work > item. Any comments or concerns? > >> >> > >> >> The lefaucheur and polk drafts should probably be treated as > a pair. Both relate to the issue of reserving an appropriate level > of resource (e.g. bandwidth) in a single round trip when it is not > known in advance how much resource is available. This is quite > helpful, for example, in a video conferencing application that has > a choice of codecs. The polk draft in particular was (I think) a > catalyst for the RSVP discussion in Anaheim because it seemed to be > stretching the scope of what has normally been done in TSVWG for > RSVP maintenance. > >> >> > >> >> Given the scope of the directorate, I would like a couple of > folks on the directorate to review those drafts and then we can > discuss whether they should become TSVWG work items. Can I have > some volunteers? > >> >> > >> >> Thanks, > >> >> Bruce > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> rsvp-dir mailing list > >> >> rsvp-dir@ietf.org > >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rsvp-dir > >> > > >> > ________________________________________________________________ > >> > Bob Briscoe, BT Innovate & Design > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Bob Briscoe, BT Innovate & Design ________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe, BT Innovate & Design
- [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Director… Bruce Davie
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Lou Berger
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Bruce Davie
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Bruce Davie
- Re: [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Dire… Bob Briscoe
- [rsvp-dir] Our first work items for RSVP Director… Bruce Davie