Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and MSIDs for synchronization
"Timothy B. Terriberry" <tterriberry@mozilla.com> Thu, 14 February 2013 04:23 UTC
Return-Path: <tterriberry@mozilla.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E959021E80D5 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:23:28 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.677
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.677 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbJGWM59LKmu for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:23:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794B621E80D2 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:23:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [172.17.167.47] (h-64-105-111-74.cmbrmaor.static.covad.net [64.105.111.74]) (Authenticated sender: tterriberry@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDDB3F226B for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:23:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <511C66BE.7090105@mozilla.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:23:26 -0800
From: "Timothy B. Terriberry" <tterriberry@mozilla.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120625 SeaMonkey/2.10.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <CABcZeBO105HXWoRAbaAR0fGTCLtDmAyjt-DOM=aKy80sg2SG_Q@mail.gmail.com> <51140038.3040001@ericsson.com> <CABcZeBP_-ce-JT-oDkpkDoRKjrZo+m7NLTcifCOsRBM_qKPTmg@mail.gmail.com> <511407AA.1040501@ericsson.com> <CABcZeBO0oSYw-M-1wVujftiYdBtJ67SBfMp4k5gSm45HFhZ+=A@mail.gmail.com> <92B7E61ADAC1BB4F941F943788C0882804788D71@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <51157034.3020800@alvestrand.no> <51164AFC.80700@ericsson.com> <51165FCA.2040707@alvestrand.no> <511796C6.3050601@ericsson.com> <511820F9.5080806@alvestrand.no> <5118EDC1.2000809@ericsson.com> <5119F155.8090303@alvestrand.no>
In-Reply-To: <5119F155.8090303@alvestrand.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and MSIDs for synchronization
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:23:29 -0000
Harald Alvestrand wrote: > I don't understand what the problem is here. I may be dumb. > If syncing is important to the guy writing the service, (he can't live > with them being unsynchronized), he should put them in the same stream. The argument goes that if we leave this unspecified, web authors will test against browser A which does X, and not against browser B which does Y, and users of browser B will suffer when things don't work like they did in browser A. Personally I'm not convinced this argument applies here. For cases like "Do the contents of this table element show up at all when I fail to close my <tr>?" it's pretty important, but in reality resynchronization is only going to affect things so much... if things get more than a few 100 ms out of sync on the wire, the experience is going to be terrible no matter what you do (and I'd call them "bad" long before that point). The goal of pixel-perfect rendering for webpages might be reasonable, but sample-accurate rendering of real-time media will never be possible given the limitations of real-world networks, and whether you're forcing synchronization or not, the media will still play. > The practical issue I can think of would be a source that had its own > clock, not the system clock, but is otherwise a local source. Having the > same CNAME would require resynchronizing that source. I don't know if > any such sources exist in practice, but again, I don't want to outlaw them. I can certainly think of cases where two local streams with, e.g., the same sampling rate would advance at different rates measured against a global wallclock. For example, a gUM stream running against the microphone's clock vs. a <video> tag playing back against the soundcard output clock. Then AFAICT forcing the use of the same CNAME means we will always add some additional latency in the receiver to perform the resynchronization. In the above situation, I'm not sure that's always the best choice.
- [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and MSI… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Hakansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Hakansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Hakansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Jonathan Lennox
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Cullen Jennings (fluffy)
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Stefan Håkansson LK
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Jim Barnett
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Timothy B. Terriberry
- Re: [rtcweb] Proposal for dealing with CNAMEs and… Magnus Westerlund
- [rtcweb] Simulcast was Re: Proposal for dealing w… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [rtcweb] Simulcast was Re: Proposal for deali… Timothy B. Terriberry