Re: [rtcweb] Strawman for how to prevent voice-hammer without ICE

Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com> Fri, 29 July 2011 12:45 UTC

Return-Path: <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806E021F8BBA for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.196
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.402, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ykt5O1xydHNr for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from blu0-omc3-s13.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc3-s13.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.116.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E292E21F8BB9 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:45:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from BLU152-W47 ([65.55.116.73]) by blu0-omc3-s13.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:45:23 -0700
Message-ID: <BLU152-W478CD0621720183544BE7693370@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_b3df2268-24ac-4fe7-b703-d9d5ea885170_"
X-Originating-IP: [130.129.17.34]
From: Bernard Aboba <bernard_aboba@hotmail.com>
To: john.elwell@siemens-enterprise.com, hkaplan@acmepacket.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 05:45:23 -0700
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <A444A0F8084434499206E78C106220CA08F1D75E24@MCHP058A.global-ad.net>
References: <B6527F21-4DE2-46B1-AE2E-891D56461313@acmepacket.com>, <A444A0F8084434499206E78C106220CA08F1D75CF6@MCHP058A.global-ad.net>, <464DADBD-EEBE-43C8-8552-EAA40FBB610D@acmepacket.com>, <A444A0F8084434499206E78C106220CA08F1D75E24@MCHP058A.global-ad.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Jul 2011 12:45:23.0942 (UTC) FILETIME=[6257F060:01CC4DED]
Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Strawman for how to prevent voice-hammer without ICE
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:45:24 -0000

[BA] Agree that it's worth exploring further, if only to document what the security requirements are, and what is required to meet them.  The problem with the gateway argument is that it can be extended too far -- it is one thing to require a gateway for signaling, and quite another to require transcoding of media, for example.  As long as we have legacy interop use cases, and aren't asserting that RTCWEB represents a "singularity", then we need to be able to handle them. 


> [JRE] This assumes RTP-RTCP multiplexing, which not many current devices support. There are so many things that RTC-Web is proposing to use that are not widely supported on existing devices that some sort of gateway looks inevitable. Eliminating one particular instance of incompatibility might reduce the amount of adaptation the gateway needs to perform, but it looks increasingly unlikely that all adaptation can be eliminated. So is there any real value in trying to eliminate one aspect if others can't be eliminated? Probably yes, but not if it introduces other compromises, e.g., security. I think it is worth exploring this further.