Re: [saad] About saad
Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com> Tue, 21 October 2003 17:35 UTC
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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:33:12 +0200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
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Subject: Re: [saad] About saad
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Erik Nordmark wrote: > > > 1. Concern: Domain names are overloaded; they get used for too many things > > already. > > > > Response: So? What problems are caused by this and how does it prevent > > them from being used as EIDs? How will using them as EIDs -- and we can > > skip over the argument that they already _are_ EIDs, for the moment -- > > break any of the other uses for domain names? > > It isn't the domain names per-see that are the issues but any implied > semantics of having multiple AAAA records for the same RRset. > > For instance, the AAAA RRset for www.example.com might return 5 addresses. And might return different addresses on consecutive calls, if round robin load sharing is in use. And the addresses returned might well be virtual, i.e. dynamically assigned to a particular server at packet-delivery time. So what such an FQDN actually refers to (except itself) is fuzzy indeed. Brian > Does that mean that that those are different locators for the same > stack/entity, 5 separate stacks, or some combination? > Additional information in the DNS, or some negotation protocol between the > endpoints can presumably be used to resolve this question. > > > 2. Concern: DNS administration is difficult > > > > Response: But it exists and it works. Persistent names need > > administration. > > Depending on your definition of "administration" this might not be the > case for statistically unique and cryptographically verifiable identifiers > (also known as CBIDs or hashes of public keys). > Any node could generate a 128 bit ID by generating a public/private key > pair and doing the SHA1 hash of the public key; doesn't require any > name space administration. > > > Why is something new going to be easier? What can't the > > mechanisms that make it easier be applied to the DNS? Why won't adding > > them to DNS be substantially easier than creating a new, global > > administrative mechanism? > > > > > > 3. Concern: Domain names are inefficient to use > > > > Response: If they must be used in every packet, that is true. If they > > must be used only occasionally, such as at the start of an association > > or at major state change events, then the bit-inefficiency of domain > > names is irrelevant to the overall efficiency of the service that is > > using it. > > There is an aspect called "the DNS is inefficient to use" which > doesn't seem to be part of your #3. > Using domain names while preventing the redirection attacks that are > implicit in any attempt to make ULP communication survive locator changes > implies that some more DNS lookups will be performed. > Understanding the performance of using the DNS for such > a lookup (with and without DNSsec) with schemes based on CBIDs is > definitely a worth-while effort. > > > 4. Concern: Domain names are administered by a different entity than the > > folks who administer IP operations > > > > Response: Is this a turf war? Is there some reason to believe that > > having the new namespace administered by another group is somehow going > > to make the new names trivial to administer, compared with domain names? > > The mere fact that the new namespace _might_ be administered by a > > different group does not guarantee that the reality of administering it > > is any better than the reality of administering domain names. > > There is a level 9 meta-issue related to this. > If a new rooted, hierarchical name space is needed somebody needs > to be appointed to control and operate the root of that namespace. > Resolving the food fight of who should be in control might take some > time. > > FWIW neither using the DNS as in MAST or using flat CBIDs have this > problem. > > > 5. Concern: Not all machines have domain names. > > > > Response: _No_ machines have whatever the alternative might be. > > Question is how hard it would be to add them. > > I could get a CBID for my machines at home in a few seconds (the time > it takes to generate the key pair). Convincing the ISP to assign me a domain > name would take a lot longer. > > Thus if both ends of the communication need a domain name this might be an > impediment for deployment. > > Erik _______________________________________________ Saad mailing list Saad@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saad
- Re: [saad] About saad Geoff Huston
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- [saad] About saad Michel Py
- RE: [saad] About saad marcelo bagnulo
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- RE: [saad] About saad J. Noel Chiappa
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: [saad] About saad Fred Baker
- Re: [saad] About saad Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) James Kempf
- Re: [saad] About saad Fred Baker
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) Melinda Shore
- Re: [saad] About saad Dave Crocker
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- Re: [saad] About saad Dave Crocker
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) Melinda Shore
- Re: [saad] About saad Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [saad] About saad Erik Nordmark
- Re: [saad] About saad Brian E Carpenter