Re: [saad] About saad
Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Fri, 17 October 2003 19:09 UTC
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Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:10:23 -0400
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
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Subject: Re: [saad] About saad
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Brian, BEC> The reasons why FQDNs are imperfect EIDs have been listed quite recently BEC> (on one of the IPV6 lists I think). As a proponent of using domain names as endpoint identifiers -- for those situations requiring only occasional exchanges -- I have put some effort into looking for the discussions that argue against their use. My goal is, of course, to then try to refute the arguments. If I can't find convincing counter-arguments, I'll change my advocacy. So far, I have not found arguments that are pragmatic and operational. The arguments against domain names have primarily been based on principles and aesthetics. These are important for guidance, but should not get in the way of pragmatics. New namespaces are expensive, particularly when they need global administration. What I am looking for are arguments that explain how use of domain names as EIDs "will not work" or arguments that explain how use of them will break other things. I've even tried to ask such questions in a few venues. Sadly, responses that attend to pragmatics have not been forthcoming. So, if there is a discussion that really explains the pragmatic problems with using domain names, I would greatly appreciate being pointed at it. Failing that, I'm afraid that, yes, this list should discuss the question. Let me prime the pump: 1. Concern: Domain names are overloaded; they get used for too many things already. Response: So? What problems are caused by this and how does it prevent them from being used as EIDs? How will using them as EIDs -- and we can skip over the argument that they already _are_ EIDs, for the moment -- break any of the other uses for domain names? 2. Concern: DNS administration is difficult Response: But it exists and it works. Persistent names need administration. Why is something new going to be easier? What can't the mechanisms that make it easier be applied to the DNS? Why won't adding them to DNS be substantially easier than creating a new, global administrative mechanism? 3. Concern: Domain names are inefficient to use Response: If they must be used in every packet, that is true. If they must be used only occasionally, such as at the start of an association or at major state change events, then the bit-inefficiency of domain names is irrelevant to the overall efficiency of the service that is using it. 4. Concern: Domain names are administered by a different entity than the folks who administer IP operations Response: Is this a turf war? Is there some reason to believe that having the new namespace administered by another group is somehow going to make the new names trivial to administer, compared with domain names? The mere fact that the new namespace _might_ be administered by a different group does not guarantee that the reality of administering it is any better than the reality of administering domain names. 5. Concern: Not all machines have domain names. Response: _No_ machines have whatever the alternative might be. And so on. OK. Consider the pump primed. d/ -- Dave Crocker <dcrocker-at-brandenburg-dot-com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253> _______________________________________________ Saad mailing list Saad@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saad
- Re: [saad] About saad Geoff Huston
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- [saad] About saad Michel Py
- RE: [saad] About saad marcelo bagnulo
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- RE: [saad] About saad J. Noel Chiappa
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: [saad] About saad Fred Baker
- Re: [saad] About saad Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) James Kempf
- Re: [saad] About saad Fred Baker
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) Melinda Shore
- Re: [saad] About saad Dave Crocker
- Re: [saad] About saad James Kempf
- Re: [saad] About saad Dave Crocker
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) James Kempf
- RE: [saad] About saad Michel Py
- Re: Why Scopes? (was: Re: [saad] About saad) Melinda Shore
- Re: [saad] About saad Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [saad] About saad Erik Nordmark
- Re: [saad] About saad Brian E Carpenter