Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Question for the Comment from Eric Rescorla (
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Sat, 21 December 2019 22:46 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:46:30 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Question for the Comment from Eric Rescorla (
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Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com> wrote: > UEFI Secure Boot (in essence what I meant by image singing) uses a PKI > architecture. There is a Product Key PK (root CA) that establishes a > trust relationship between the platform owner and the platform > firmware. The PK signs KEKs which established a trust relationship > between the platform firmware and the operating system. These are > mostly in X.509 today. More in [2]. >> Is there a reason why you don't want to do hash signatures? > HBS indeed looks like the best option for this usecase. Not necessarily > stateful. We have some preliminary analysis on this is in Section 3 in > [1]. More to come soon. > But we can’t go directly to pure HBS because already deployed machines > in the field will not boot at all and upgrading BIOS is not > simple. Also, we can’t go to pure HBS because it will not be FIPS > approved even after we have a standardized PQ option. So, we have to do > some sort of composite RSA+post-quantum (NIST has put out a statement > that says that a composite will still be FIPS approved if the classical > part is). The FIPS argument is important. Waiting for PQ > standardization is one thing, but FIPS approval will take even longer > and until then we (Cisco) want to do some sort of composite before > then. okay, I understand now. You need to have a structure that makes use of all the existing, and previously validated FIPS mechanisms and structures, but which adds a post-quantum signature *in addition*. It seems that such a solution needs to live within the ASN.1/DER-encoded PKIX rules. There have been proposals to add a HBS, and the hash-public-keys as an extension in a certificate, which I think is really ugly, but would work. I seem to recall a conversation at IETF106 about whether such a thing should live within the certificate structure, or should wrap it. It seems that you need it to live within the certificate structure, and needs to provide a parallel signature chain. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
- [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the Comm… Dr. Pala
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Dr. Pala
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Salz, Rich
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Mike Ounsworth
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Mike Ounsworth
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Carrick Bartle
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Carrick Bartle
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Carrick Bartle
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] Clarification Question for the … Douglas Stebila
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Mike Ounsworth
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [Secdispatch] [EXTERNAL]Re: Clarification Que… Mike Ounsworth