RE: [Sipforum-discussion] RE: [Sipping] Text support in SIP phones

[Henry Sinnreich <[e-mail]>]

Gunnar, thanks for bringing this up! I believe now we can ask for
discussion time at the SIPPING WG meeting.

Henry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] 
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of 
> Gunnar Hellström
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 2:42 PM
> To: Henry Sinnreich; 'Drage, Keith (Keith)'; 'Sipping@Ietf. 
> Org'; 'Sipforum-Discussion@Lists. Su. Se'
> Subject: SV: [Sipforum-discussion] RE: [Sipping] Text support 
> in SIP phones
> 
> 
> I agree that this discussion starts to get balance into the 
> specification of the real time text conversation feature.
> 
> Firstly, I have discovered that I need to explain again that 
> what we talk about is a real time, character by character 
> transmission and display of text. You can see the thought as 
> it is growing and being formed into text. It is a very direct 
> way to have contact, and once you have used it, you realize 
> that in some applications it is essential to have access to 
> this feature. It has the same immediate flow as audio in 
> voice telephony and video in video telephony.
> 
> In fact, there is a name for the three media together, it is 
> called Total Conversation.
> 
> It is true that the force behind defining it has come from 
> the needs of people with communication related disabilities. 
> But I am sure that once commonly implemented, it will become 
> a natural and popular feature that is often used during voice 
> calls between most users.
> 
> Instant messaging is also a very handy service. But it goes 
> message by message, and therefore does not have the direct 
> touch as the real time conversational service in voice, text 
> and video has.
> 
> 
> 
> We have a forerunner in the specification of media for the 
> SIP based IP Multimedia phone in 3GPP. Maybe we can pick the 
> same style of specification. In 3GPP TS 26.235, "Packet 
> switched conversational multimedia applications, default 
> codecs", it is specified among the enumeration of supported media:
> 
> 6.3	Real time text
> 3G PS multimedia terminals offering real time text 
> conversation should support ITU-T Recommendation T.140 [25] 
> Text Conversation presentation coding.
> 
> And in the chapter on RTP payload, it is specified:
> 
> 9.2	RTP payload
> RTP payload formats specified by IETF shall be used for real 
> time media streams. RTP payload format for the AMR narrowband 
> speech codec is specified in annex B. RTP payload format for 
> the AMR wideband speech codec is specified in annex B. RTP 
> payload format for the ITU-T Recommendation H.263 [6] video 
> codec is specified in IETF RFC 2429 [3]. RTP payload format 
> for the MPEG-4 visual simple profile level 0 is specified in 
> IETF RFC 3016 [5]. RTP payload format for the ITU-T 
> Recommendation T.140 [25] text conversation coding is 
> specified in IETF RFC 2793 [24].
> 
> In the annex A on specific details, the following is 
> specified for text:
> 
> A.3	Text
> Use of the redundancy coding variant specified in RFC 2793 
> [24] is recommended for error resilience.
> 
> --------------------------------
> When this topic was handled in 3GPP, there was opposition 
> against mentioning the reason for introducing the text 
> feature as being something specific for disabled people.
> 
> I think that is still valid.
> 
> I suggest that the following formulation is used:
> **************************************************************
> **************
> **************************************
> SIP-zz, digital text support: SIP telephone devices SHOULD 
> support real time text conversation. If text is supported, it 
> MUST support RFC2793 [y], for text coding and packetization, 
> and it MUST be possible to use text simultaneously with voice.
> **************************************************************
> **************
> **************************************
> 
> 
> Gunnar
> -------------------------------------------
> Gunnar Hellström, Omnitor, Renathvägen 2
> SE 121 37 Johanneshov, SWEDEN
> Tel: [phone]  Mob: [phone]
> e-mail: [e-mail]
> web: www.omnitor.se
> 
> 
> > -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> > Från: [e-mail]
> > [mailto:[e-mail]]För Henry Sinnreich
> > Skickat: den 10 juni 2003 18:02
> > Till: 'Drage, Keith (Keith)'; 'Henry Sinnreich'; 'Gunnar 
> Hellström'; 
> > 'Sipping@Ietf. Org'; 'Sipforum-Discussion@Lists. Su. Se'
> > Ämne: [Sipforum-discussion] RE: [Sipping] Text support in SIP phones
> >
> >
> > Keith, thanks for bringing balance, I believe, to this discussion.
> >
> > We could formulate soemthing like "SIP phones that have a 
> text display 
> > and advertised as supporting the hearing or speech disabled MUST..."
> >
> > Would this be OK?
> >
> > Henry
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On 
> > > Behalf Of Drage, Keith (Keith)
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:14 AM
> > > To: 'Henry Sinnreich'; 'Gunnar Hellström'; 'Sipping@Ietf. Org'; 
> > > 'Sipforum-Discussion@Lists. Su. Se'
> > > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Text support in SIP phones
> > >
> > >
> > > I would suggest that treating these sort of things as 
> MUST strength 
> > > is best left to national regulatory requirements, along 
> with other 
> > > things like fitness for purpose and so on. I have no objection to 
> > > their being mentioned. By the way, I understood this document was 
> > > being progressed as authors individual submission, and 
> was therefore 
> > > not standards track.
> > >
> > > Any such MUST would surely need to be qualified anyway. If the 
> > > purpose of the devise is such that it renders a textual devise 
> > > irrelevant, then why require one to be fitted. Suppose we were 
> > > designing a SIP phone for the totally blind, and this was 
> designed 
> > > to be worn as a headset, a text device would be 
> irrelevant to such a 
> > > user, and positioning such a device where it could be seen would 
> > > require an extra box hanging out of the side of the product.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > Keith Drage
> > > Lucent Technologies
> > > Tel: [phone]
> > > Email: [e-mail]
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > > > Sent: 27 May 2003 17:18
> > > > To: 'Gunnar Hellström'; 'Sipping@Ietf. Org'; 
> > > > 'Sipforum-Discussion@Lists. Su. Se'
> > > > Cc: 'Henry Sinnreich'
> > > > Subject: RE: [Sipping] Text support in SIP phones
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gunnar, this all seems very reasonable, and I will try 
> to insert 
> > > > it properly.
> > > >
> > > > Henry
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [e-mail] 
> [mailto:[e-mail]] On 
> > > > > Behalf Of Gunnar Hellström
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2003 6:54 PM
> > > > > To: 'Sipping@Ietf. Org'; Sipforum-Discussion@Lists. Su. Se
> > > > > Cc: Henry Sinnreich
> > > > > Subject: [Sipping] Text support in SIP phones
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, I missed out the reference to the SIP device 
> > > > > specification.
> > > > >
> > > > > Henry and all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Some time ago, I suggested addition of support for real time 
> > > > > text communication to the SIP device specification
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-sinnreich-sipdev-req-00.tx
> > > t
> > > > >
> > > > > This was the simple part of the proposal:
> > > > >
> > > > > > SIP-zz, digital text support: SIP telephone devices 
> MUST support
> > > > > >   real time text conversation using RFC 2793 [y] for the
> > > > > text stream.
> > > > > >   It MUST be possible to use text simultaneously with voice.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------
> > > > > > In 4.11 Ringer Behaviour  : add the section below for the
> > > > > purpose of
> > > > > > deaf, hearing impaired, deaf-blind people and people in the
> > > > > garden and
> > > > > > noisy
> > > > > > locations:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SIP Telephony devices MUST provide an external 
> interface to an 
> > > > > > external alerting system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Add to References
> > > > > > -----------------
> > > > > > [y] G. Hellstrom: "RTP Payload for Text Conversation.",
> > > RFC 2793,
> > > > > > IETF, May 2000.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > The reception of this proposal was very positive.
> > > > > Now, I would like to see the final formulation, and 
> check that 
> > > > > we agree on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I regard this requirement to be very light. In the Interface 
> > > > > section ( e.g.
> > > > > Int-2) , there is already mentioning of mandatory text input 
> > > > > mechanisms, and assumptions that a display would be normal, 
> > > > > since handling of phone books and buddy lists are 
> mandatory. To 
> > > > > re-use these text interface devices during the call for 
> > > > > standardised text conversation purposes seems straightforward.
> > > > >
> > > > > It could be wise to add the T.140 text presentation 
> protocol as 
> > > > > a codec to the codec section. The normal SDP used 
> together with 
> > > > > RFC2793 for text could also be specified. Do you want
> > > > to do that?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > >
> > > > > We also need to check the ideas around the other proposed
> > > > > requirements: The requirement to include text 
> telephone modem in 
> > > > > all designs where an RJ11 phone connector exists, and the 
> > > > > requirement to support RFC 3351. I suggest that we start with 
> > > > > the straightforward and mainstream requirement above. Is that 
> > > > > accepted as it is?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Gunnar
> > > > > -------------------------------------------
> > > > > Gunnar Hellström, Omnitor, Renathvägen 2
> > > > > SE 121 37 Johanneshov, SWEDEN
> > > > > Tel: [phone]  Mob: [phone]
> > > > > e-mail: [e-mail]
> > > > > web: www.omnitor.se
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> 
> 

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