Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function

<bruno.decraene@orange.com> Wed, 11 December 2019 09:27 UTC

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From: <bruno.decraene@orange.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming <draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming@ietf.org>
CC: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion <draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion@ietf.org>, Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
Thread-Topic: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:27:33 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function
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Brian, Pablo

Please see inline (multiple points)

> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 8:36 PM
> To: DECRAENE Bruno TGI/OLN; Fernando Gont
> Cc: Ron Bonica; spring@ietf.org; 6man@ietf.org; Suresh Krishnan; draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion; draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
> Subject: Re: [spring] Question about SRv6 Insert function
> 
> Bruno,
> 
> On 11-Dec-19 06:17, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
> > Fernando,
> > 
> >> From: Fernando Gont [mailto:fernando@gont.com.ar] 
> >> Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 9:54 PM
> >>
> >> On 5/9/19 09:46, bruno.decraene@orange.com wrote:
> >> [....]
> >>>>
> >>>> Since there have been plenty of attempts to do EH insertion or
> >>>> leave the IPv6 standard ambiguous in this respect, and the IETF has
> >>>> had consensus that EH insertion is not allowed, I think it would be
> >>>> bad, wastefull, tricky, and even dangerous to let a document go
> >>>> through the whole publication process, and just rely on the AD to
> >>>> keep the "DISCUSS" button pressed.
> >>>
> >>> draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming has a normative reference
> >>> to [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] 
> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-01#section-13.1
> >>>
> >>>  As such, from a process standpoint, it would not going to be
> >>> published before [I-D.voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion] be
> >>> itself published as RFC. And from its name, the latter is intended to
> >>> be discussed and within control of the 6MAN WG. So I don't think that
> >>> we can say that it "just rely on the AD to keep the "DISCUSS" button
> >>> pressed."
> >>
> >> Yes, it is just relying on that.
> > 
> > Situation has changed since this email: the network programming draft has now removed text related to SRH insertion.
> > Please comment on the text if you see text related to SRH insertion.
> 
> For example:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming-05#section-8.2

Quoting the draft for everyone to read
" Every  node is expected to advertise via BGP-LS its SRv6 capabilities (e.g.
   how many SIDs it can insert as part of a T.Encaps behavior)"
 
This is related to T.Encaps which is using IPv6 (outer) encapsulation.
- If you believe that T.Encaps is unclear on that, please comment on its text. [1]
- If the issue is the use of the term 'insert', which is too close to the 'SRH insertion issue', I'm personally fine with using a different term. E.g. "add". Please propose any term which suits you [1]. That been said, I hope that we are not in a situation where words are being forbidden.

[1] Preferably in the related thread, in order to help everyone (all WG members, chairs, shepherds, ADs, IESG)  to be able to track all comments. As we'll likely be in a situations where the number of emails may be consequent

> Why would draft-voyer-6man-extension-header-insertion exists if the SRH proponents do not intend to perform SRH insertion?

As of today, the question been asked is a WG last call on draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming. If you want to secure that SRH insertion is not used in the document, please comment as part of its last call.

That been said, thanks to your comment, I've seen an unused reference for [I-D.filsfils-spring-srv6-net-pgm-insertion]  that needs to be removed

--Bruno


> 
    > Brian
> 
> > 
> >> A question of you as a chair: does the wg you chair publish documents
> >> based on current specs (or at the very least based on  changes that are
> >> going to happen in the near term as a result of *existing and proven
> >> consensus*), or does spring ship documents that implicitly betting on
> >> changes that have no consensus?
> > 
> > In general, I don't see the benefit of sending a draft which we expect would never progress to RFC. So this would not be my preferred path.
> > However, I guess that as always, there are exceptions and I'm not a priori aware of a process forbidding this. As of today, I'd rather not spend time on this hypothetical case.
> >  
> >> The former is how I expect WGs to operate. The later shows a clear path
> >> to a huge pile of documents stuck at IESG review, simply because so
> >> later in the process folks found out that the document turns out to
> >> violate existing specs. With the risk of an AD pressing "YES", and hence
> >> IETF has been circumvented.
> > 
> > While IESG processing is beyond my paycheck (literally ;-) ), I trust the IESG. And I don't see a reason to doubt a priori.
> > And even in this case, there may be a possibly to fetch back the document from the RFC editor queue.
> > 
> > In short: very hypothetic case and beyond my hat. As of today, I'd propose that we work on the text of the document.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > --Bruno
> >  
> >> Thanks,
> >> -- 
> >> Fernando Gont
> >> e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@si6networks.com
> >> PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > 
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