Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of CR in CRH
Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> Fri, 29 May 2020 09:11 UTC
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To: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)" <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:11:00 +0200
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Subject: Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of CR in CRH
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Hi Ron, On 28/05/2020 18:55, Ron Bonica wrote: > Weibin, > > Inline….. > > Ron > > Juniper Business Use Only > > *From:* Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai) <weibin.wang@nokia-sbell.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:35 AM > *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; Ron Bonica > <rbonica@juniper.net>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> > *Cc:* rtg-ads@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; 6man <6man@ietf.org> > *Subject:* RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > *[External Email. Be cautious of content]* > > Hi Ron, > > After reading through many mails related to CRH in list, I found all > CRH-SIDs (allocated to prefix-sid <loosely forwarding>and Adj-sid<strict > forwarding>) are of local significance in fact, its operation actually > is not same as MPLS Label nor SR-MPLS label (such as domain-wide prefix > SID/label), all CRH-SIDs are locally allocated by node itself based on > local FIB6, independent of other CRH-SID allocated by other nodes in CRH > domain; so every node (Maybe except ingress PE of CRH domain) has no > useful to learn other SIDs allocated by other nodes by IGP-extension > advertising. Its deployment must have controller (considering dynamic > mechanism), the controller learn all CRH-SIDs from each node to program > the source path under path calculation requirement from ingress PE. > > [RB] Absolutely correct !! if CRH-SIDs are of local significance how is the loose source routing going to be supported? Or is CRH only supposed to be used for strict hop-by-hop source routing? If so, the use case would be quite limited. Honestly, strictly technically, I do not see much difference between CRH and RFC8663 & RFC4023 combo. Former uses an extra extension header, the latter uses the next-header. Rest looks same. thanks, Peter > > I suggested you should describe more detail about how to create CRH-SID > entry (in CRH-FIB) in this CRH draft, is it based on local FIB6, if it > is, how to do synchronization between CRH-FIB and FIB6? > > [RB] In some deployment scenarios, the IPv6 FIB and the CRH-FIB are > populated by an IGP. Please review and comment on the IS-IS CRH document > <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bonica-lsr-crh-isis-extensions/>. I > am excited to collaborate with you on that . > > [RB] In other deployment scenarios, the IPv6 FIB and / or the CRH-FIB > are populated by a controller. If you are interested in that scenario, > again, we would be excited to collaborate with you. > > Ron > > Above is my understanding, if not right,pls correct me. > > Wang Weibin > > *From:*ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> *On > Behalf Of *Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > *Sent:* 2020年5月28日19:46 > *To:* Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org > <mailto:rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Joel M. Halpern > <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > *Cc:* rtg-ads@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-ads@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org > <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org <mailto:6man@ietf.org>> > *Subject:* RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > Hi Ron, > > Some of the operators may not care about the SR name, but it is clear to > me that the proposal in the CRH draft is a subset of Segment Routing > (i.e. a reduced portion of Spring Architecture) that only supports > prefix and adjacency SIDs as indicated by the two "forwarding methods". > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr-22#section-4 > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr-22*section-4__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!VMgRZ_fS_8pBN886aeeU1sFZpteVAkwQNu6xqWRsR27VhEn_wpAuXmcCngHDrhN8$> > > o Forward the packet to the next-hop along the least-cost path to > *>>> Prefix SID* > > the next segment endpoint. > > o Forward the packet through a specified interface to the next *>>> > Adjacency SID* > > segment endpoint. > > Given the use of mapping IDs and mapping FIB, the proposal is comparable > more to SR-MPLS than SRv6. It is better to do a holistic analysis of any > proposal such as CRH that is introducing an MPLS label like mapping > construct into IPv6 architecture - doing so should be considered as a > significant change to IPv6. > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org > <mailto:rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> > > Sent: 25 May 2020 21:14 > > To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com > <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > > Cc: rtg-ads@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-ads@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org > <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org <mailto:6man@ietf.org>> > > Subject: RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > Ketan, > > It would not be fair to say that these operators "wish to deploy a > Traffic Engineering solution using a subset of Segment Routing". > > It would be fair to say that these operators "wish to deploy IPv6 > Traffic Engineering". Some of these operators don't care about SR. Some > are actively averse to SRv6. All they want is a Routing header. > > Ron > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org > <mailto:ketant=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>> > > Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 5:21 AM > > To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net <mailto:rbonica@juniper.net>>; Joel > M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > > Cc: rtg-ads@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-ads@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org > <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org <mailto:6man@ietf.org>> > > Subject: RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > Hi Ron, > > Thanks for that clarification. > > I note that you are not anymore saying "Are not interested in SR" like > you had mentioned before the WG adoption call : > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/LheyFD_uwuHp7tiG8Y1CwKngDYI/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!X2qW2zTZEbZRfBSE6c_KM-k7aIvZTIT9bycp3jyFJ3sTbf8MtGo4E_uGX7zYZ7lk$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/LheyFD_uwuHp7tiG8Y1CwKngDYI/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!X2qW2zTZEbZRfBSE6c_KM-k7aIvZTIT9bycp3jyFJ3sTbf8MtGo4E_uGX7zYZ7lk$> > > So, would it be fair to say that the operator that you are referring to > below, wishes to deploy a Traffic Engineering solution using a subset of > Segment Routing (i.e. a reduced portion of Spring Architecture) that > only supports prefix and adjacency SIDs as indicated by the two > "forwarding methods" that are referred to in draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr? > > Thanks, > > Ketan > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ron Bonica <rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org > <mailto:rbonica=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> > > Sent: 25 May 2020 09:03 > > To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com > <mailto:ketant@cisco.com>>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com > <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > > Cc: rtg-ads@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-ads@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org > <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org <mailto:6man@ietf.org>> > > Subject: RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > Ketan, > > Please consider an operator who: > > - Wants a way to steer IPv6 packets through a specified path that > includes many nodes (>8) > > - Does not want any of the following: > > - A new VPN encapsulation technique > > - A new service function chaining technique > > - Network programming > > - MPLS and uSID > > - To encoding instructions in IPv6 addresses. > > These operators want a compact routing header, nothing more. > > Ron > > Juniper Business Use Only > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org>> On > Behalf Of Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) > > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 1:42 AM > > To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> > > Cc: rtg-ads@ietf.org <mailto:rtg-ads@ietf.org>; spring@ietf.org > <mailto:spring@ietf.org>; 6man <6man@ietf.org <mailto:6man@ietf.org>> > > Subject: RE: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re: Size of > CR in CRH > > [SNIP] > > I am looking for explanation of the "other ways" that CRH can be used > (i.e. those outside the Spring architecture). I am trying to understand > from the authors what would be the applicability of that solution, it's > use-cases and it's requirements. That is what, I believe, will help us > evaluate the CRH proposal in the context of this working call. That will > help us answer these questions like the scope of the SID, 32-bit or > 16-bit or something else and what the CRH-FIB is going to turn out like. > > [SNIP] > > ------------------------------------------------------ >
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Bob Hinden
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case - Re:… Zafar Ali (zali)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Chengli (Cheng Li)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Tom Herbert
- [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Aijun Wang
- Re: [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Ca… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Ca… Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Ca… Aijun Wang
- Re: [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Ca… Joel Halpern Direct
- Re: [spring] 答复: CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Ca… Aijun Wang
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… otroan
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ole Troan
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- [spring] What's the colour of the hat (was: Re: C… otroan
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Andrew Alston
- Re: [spring] What's the colour of the hat (was: R… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] What's the colour of the hat (was: R… Sander Steffann
- Re: [spring] What's the colour of the hat (was: R… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] What's the colour of the hat (was: R… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Srihari Sangli
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Fernando Gont
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Wang, Weibin (NSB - CN/Shanghai)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ron Bonica
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Peter Psenak
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Peter Psenak
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… John Scudder
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Peter Psenak
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… John Scudder
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Peter Psenak
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… John Scudder
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Peter Psenak
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
- Re: [spring] CRH is back to the SPRING Use-Case -… Robert Raszuk