Re: [Taps] New Version Notification for draft-welzl-taps-transports-00.txt

[Brian Trammell <[e-mail]>]

In transit, please excuse the brevity.

Broadly I appreciate the effort to do the decomposition in a less arbitrary way. I'm not convinced it's actually less arbitrary, but this is largely irrelevant: it's a *different* way to do the decomposition, so points of agreement (of which, at least on TCP and SCTP, there are many) reinforce confidence that we're doing this right. I tend to agree with Gorry's suggestion on the way forward.

Cheers, Brian

Sent from my iPhone

> On 05 Oct 2015, at 11:42, Aaron Falk <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Have others read this draft yet?   It is clearly aimed at addressing charter deliverable #1.  Do other folks have an opinion on how well it helps the group achieve the goals in our charter?  Should we use this document in some way? I'm looking for more input from the working group on how we should proceed. 
> 
> My opinion: I am very mindful (& appreciative) of the significant effort by Mirja and Brian and the other contributors on draft-ietf-taps-transports.    The discussion around this doc has been very useful for clarifying (to me) how difficult it can be to pull useful common abstractions out of the 30+ years of transport technologies.  Having been down this path for over a year, I appreciate the fairly narrow approach draft-welzl-taps-transports and think it may be the best chance for TAPS to succeed.  
> 
> Please share your views.
> 
> --aaron
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Sep 26, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Michael Welzl <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> +1
>> 
>> > On 26. sep. 2015, at 13.28, Marie-Jose Montpetit <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Makes sense.
>> >
>> >> On Sep 26, 2015, at 3:17 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
>> >>
>> >> We seem to have two documents in a space where we started with one. These
>> >> are different, to me this is OK. Both seem close to charter milestone 1. I
>> >> don't see much overlap between the contents of the descriptive language
>> >> and the API-focussed analysis, and any overlap could be eliminated.
>> >>
>> >> To me, doc 1 (current chartered item) can evolve to provide background and
>> >> missing documentation for anyone in the IETF, and should compare
>> >> transports in a broad way and draw out the idea that they provide
>> >> services. This appears to be harder to get right than I for one had hoped,
>> >> and still has a wide scope. Not a bad thing. I suggest it will provide a
>> >> reference to stop us rat-holing when people ask what is "this" and explain
>> >> how all these transports stack-up against one another (good pun?). We can
>> >> (I suggest) finish this doc in this way.
>> >>
>> >> I do like the idea of a second document focussed ONLY on the Transport API
>> >> (I'd call this 1a). In this we can avoid this"discussion of what are
>> >> transports"  and move to  a  more focussed  process in doc 1b,  Most of
>> >> that troublesome descriptive  text can go into 1, and ensure we keep that
>> >> one readable to anyone in the  IETF.
>> >>
>> >> Could  I suggest the two docs against the first milestone will help us
>> >> make  progress towards the next milestone faster. (Assuming we can keep
>> >> the two aligned, which seems quite doable). I can see also how the  docs
>> >> are useful to different people. I'd like to see both mature and provide
>> >> inputs to move forward.
>> >>
>> >> Gorry
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Interesting and inline to getting transport API(s)
>> >>>
>> >>> Marie-José Montpetit
>> >>> [e-mail]
>> >>> [e-mail]
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sep 21, 2015, at 04:44, Michael Welzl <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In my presentation in Prague, I proposed an approach to identify the
>> >>>> services that transport protocols provide. At the end of the ensuing
>> >>>> discussion, I said that I (with co-authors) would write a draft that
>> >>>> explains the proposal by applying the proposed method to TCP and SCTP.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We just submitted this document - see below;  I hope that this will lead
>> >>>> to some discussion on the list...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>> Michael
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> From: <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for
>> >>>>> draft-welzl-taps-transports-00.txt
>> >>>>> Date: 21 Sep 2015 10:35:33 CEST
>> >>>>> To: Michael Welzl <[e-mail]>, Michael Welzl
>> >>>>> <[e-mail]>, Michael Tuexen <[e-mail]>, Naeem
>> >>>>> Khademi <[e-mail]>, Michael Tuexen <[e-mail]>,
>> >>>>> Naeem Khademi <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>> Resent-From: <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-welzl-taps-transports-00.txt
>> >>>>> has been successfully submitted by Michael Welzl and posted to the
>> >>>>> IETF repository.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Name:        draft-welzl-taps-transports
>> >>>>> Revision:    00
>> >>>>> Title:        An Approach to Identify Services Provided by IETF
>> >>>>> Transport Protocols and Congestion Control Mechanisms
>> >>>>> Document date:    2015-09-21
>> >>>>> Group:        Individual Submission
>> >>>>> Pages:        23
>> >>>>> URL:
>> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-welzl-taps-transports-00.txt
>> >>>>> Status:
>> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-welzl-taps-transports/
>> >>>>> Htmlized:
>> >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-taps-transports-00
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Abstract:
>> >>>>> This document describes a method to identify services in transport
>> >>>>> protocols and congestion control mechanisms.  It shows the approach
>> >>>>> using TCP and SCTP (base protocol) as examples.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> >>>>> submission
>> >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Taps mailing list
>> >>>> [e-mail]
>> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Taps mailing list
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>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/taps
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> 
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