Re: [Terminology] Terminology draft revised

Lloyd W <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk> Fri, 29 October 2021 22:49 UTC

Return-Path: <eclipticplane2002@yahoo.co.uk>
X-Original-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: terminology@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137313A19B9 for <terminology@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:49:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.847
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.847 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.co.uk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8xntEPljKwsR for <terminology@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sonic314-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic314-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F8AB3A1984 for <terminology@ietf.org>; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 15:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s2048; t=1635547748; bh=FDbGU9Nf3tDcGpA4R213fFyV/d8mGj+zif/L6sYfJZk=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=hHL7IwFrrGAgtWQUfzC8r9D700onZAHYK9fg2SpIjtc198lHa8g+xahF3jwgqprNY3wBObl3MeHoscPcsnB8naoLQSPBscbjkhy0ciLctrBK9bTEub8S+OMg8KU46E7BYnCIkzBQJCkJmH3n64G0qoKobCYdgYS9FJ/ZSgE1YRISpKXtBVzdgl62wT1HD0G/impcW7AEizrZDT12egzcM70JT42PMjJO4bI2s4rlfx4UVfSdm/zlUJ4vvbcBXEKsv+owhEfVx8AKUObrxAhudMTpb8ES1lSWplJCMvw0nwMbNCM6VXtHfYJUiL/lxaUwTnzvuM4/R9JN3wKFI8IT2A==
X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1635547748; bh=hpjA+E6EJttjR+Cp2bLi7lQzaQz8ibiKkPwpiXBrh3+=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:Subject:Date:To:From:Subject; b=EenCWx/n3xcpq84Dq7iKG++As5rlFHMksnKZX1Q82MS9DTY8rbX6oHiIfRnKnKl6J9Bqg47xkFUIG8ubdKUKnShp2JHb352k98FX8VVZ+dR0q0sEMU1Xa4fPZQpWt+aSXQkUaQbCO5q8NN81xMYICWjl/6yByMbyb7ymS0+3P+4ZswphDT/0ItcFB1np7Td7TIsCDvhdv0ADfrt3z5fxb5IqqWTMIWY02HJxKAku/uEY+brHDe3xzMzsAS3Jqaabop5DdstSyzmlaRx8ilj8JpEtY2/vq8OnITQn7qFAu802pqKjE5913nKtftFUGkgG7bHgLJ4pc34V3RktcmNLZw==
X-YMail-OSG: qHD7FL8VM1m8m6fUUpKFGgpzJvXG..PCYERK1eWA9iCgYmQg5Em16olJ6MIFviz 7pzBQhdr5Y6faXv18oXfeACsS.AYjKpOyebVTIGWYNEhZxmeH6C.x2AnK3qN6sAmuhl9xNffTLXs dbldcmMo4SCS3HPxwx_eXD8RUquU6D.zcLg1K_2uxdM4uJudCOZFwgqYB_3.oKu5NFJQYfHotC.j 5hKt2Vc8IwaOzfGr4331IDwnlUqBPLa6q70_Ba3TvnG9V3mhCP.18cOq8rn1xcVYVpgN1VNhFpfR TGvKO_35M.nbn7SWDtUpnZjKNG3CjmJG.OnvU9Q03.HddxDwW2cF5KW38YWJesZhC42taZIcn.Dj KORrLxQSRuG151nchr4rz2id0IB4PAElWORAqunV6Kt4lZzsJMDxgUizLbc7hOjjjn78upTgWniT KS8bObmhcnA5VGle5z8Xg.YpUz6YSUZuSXbkGWzDnx8.3H4kMxhiKtrg6sHqaCmYlNj2arNPb_gg r8QQdPVwpFZgz5oQ2yaeHVssNG.6EoVeLFaORxtz2PZY9zBkwFBONA49Dhn0Lh_BBHuavZTQMxR2 P7.ggeH1jMZwMbXxRn4.hgFxfbTMzXQsX7PEOIO5HdYHcN4zCD8MOjc2bLSpf9fPuWaq8n4_kxB. _Bz.6ibZ105hj1VFyynidUQgqKSTTmR7U8_mj_e8OOlgfEtebM7vHRRRB5u3L.iUmCnoFaSJG_pb Hwye1NH0RTev8nM9mRknKUjDWP2KDyOckmQdaGcTYqSdZ8xrjdjJICQ_TIovS_8rV2GYCcZmeNQI RdLBBHBkKj1pYfk8ZAYimBD_yx97SlOuWfq0hjF7a05KfL4MlMosmnY6Pb_0RCJXYT__KCelHI82 jX.PUcI5ru7_TyzeIIcrhK_sQvL_5j4Vh6zo83d.uWxbbAqObNog9MWD2Oo.DY5UL0qH2tQH5nIq iiEnzDHuyjIIJb6WzUYk2_hQMam2Q5PysktEmvT1xk4oWzhlKMsczAzGjUnYgjcd7QplDZRiYRby TbAxWWQoLrjZ6f8qdO69YRoselu_jzd1ZQsCQGHKdcq2tD04ChRRRSU9Xn6JLLhhNunkBbdIOxQW IpF_WYDWR1emDe15AGiY2VyB.CpsdhzGF7sSgNCoMKfioloUYOEVk7ytKXjg4fpAQK3Y1npbMqFS xg4mn.KXK2lkhkBklzQtg1zsH6MhkV5EROdK.XeCGdv8PaTyjQpEq2t8_gYPnQ8mavzxI4Cyi3LN FgzSWRr21HVKY9XN3HNTmFCCMESZEibUPEO5Jzma3E4dMg1hVbwXs09XNMAS__oF7jqM7RpEaV9x QT8uUlfKjNX0dJp8r6KSKswgBSZSV9kgUVhmz7NXjLVP19gNsDmwRQ1mOLKSbAjw4v2ZUp4diUIK lGLKydWysRlSWDWow.SAbXVMTSLxBM.w7sPiF9cz..oI5yfYRMxWNRDMk54CKe.uPSA0h86qLdLd _sq_aaHm7p5sCmrmISC_.XKp6D8tuPlmToRtI19ONWi0RqoxUNrMq6AP4Xvkfhnal26cKU3ECCr6 fwbDKIqBDcm6bup4p5D4pjTeo.3iE_.vCn7OUrgz6LM2LYn.2Okg7DaY90EA_lmI0U0vcC7WjsMl P7kuih03On2rLyxsC7R1iIuU.cQV9mjhWRVVpcM15y5AJDrVy1Rgj2Iwi0WPK0Yqf.cd6hDM.8JL LmToc2LyZ1x7_f3iO7mCMYJEaEcV9WTCKHGVF.n3hyDS4IR3aDf3fVPmUcKC8ZY9WnfWra.pLMBl ip3n9iX.S2YHItJVtCWquo0Vjv25ASfbfsocK4I7Syjfd2IpQ6cKToCr1uR7Rfzp8jhdAJ6XSdkM fCehn4sUQKpYQi8kWidTWd.vCrgPVYJIdjv8CQWziltX_JDnIEKCIo4Mb3jsDY.r8CtGZcUC76zI zs1RlVfGv5dk2GoFdU.B3VMc9AsoVVO8X84nC8XBuDQ5W4RgK7MdAKCFpiA5Lch2aki7rvrsGmxh zc_y2uYxareAPyOk301w8ii0A1EM591oudyEruP1GbBd11me7vK03_b3SCtT3KryvQ9rh2EFGvhv 9AWUfMG14XvTKA.APBEdofg8H4KjjOjCjVuDXsPRUekCl04Oh_HCW98nSiJl2Y9QxS1VCc7jTvIT itut8T3jx4tKeM9NEiPwoZ.4JGW6EcPYsU0FXioqhQIvov76W8s8_XViA_PzzXrEBJeJ1RR2aOWM QGe2RIDxh4t854a_X1nXWmuJYQwnT0HFjo513UbtqMSV3NplRDm2qyYNwz8UgScxJC4rctGS6ZBV UGE6MAcD2uuYYN7pU
X-Sonic-MF: <eclipticplane2002@yahoo.co.uk>
Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:49:08 +0000
Received: by kubenode550.mail-prod1.omega.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 977098cc771aae7b284e3850b26068fa; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:49:02 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-9E3EF4CA-01D5-4F40-AEE5-332F81D423FF"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Lloyd W <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2021 09:48:59 +1100
Message-Id: <01CB72FA-21EE-49D6-A809-EFFB0468FE64@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <57BF025B-3C90-4E12-9F2B-35D0CE809DBF@kuehlewind.net>
Cc: terminology@ietf.org, Adrian Farrel <rfc-ise@rfc-editor.org>
In-Reply-To: <57BF025B-3C90-4E12-9F2B-35D0CE809DBF@kuehlewind.net>
To: Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net>
X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18H17)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/terminology/d0SILMRGW1KGCx2JRPK3YplGN8s>
Subject: Re: [Terminology] Terminology draft revised
X-BeenThere: terminology@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Effective Terminology in IETF Documents <terminology.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/terminology/>
List-Post: <mailto:terminology@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/terminology>, <mailto:terminology-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 22:49:23 -0000

> On 30 Oct 2021, at 07:38, Mirja Kuehlewind <ietf@kuehlewind.net> wrote:
> 
> Dan, I don’t think anybody called you a racist or a Nazi. However, I have to say I strongly disagree with your views and find this discussion rather worrying.

Well, yes.

Whenever I want to make a point (a well-researched, literate point, say, across a couple of drafts) about my concerns about overreach in attempting to control and manipulate language for political goals and where it all could lead, up pops Dan 'I'm not a racist because I have Irish ancestry, and they were slaves too!' Harkins, to complain yet again about how his drafts that he didn't even have the courage to put his name to, or to admit were his when he started defending them, were summarily misunderstood, condemned, rejected, and generally abhorred.

Dr Cath-Speth's 'loud men talking loudly' observations could be expanded to include a special section on Harkins as an outlier in discourse, and the sense of entitlement he exemplifies.

But none of this imo makes the knodel terminology draft -- the original pre-Harkins subject of this thread -- well-written, well-argued, well researched, well referenced, or even at its core a good idea. Because it's imo not.

L.

http://lloydwood.users.sourceforge.net/Personal/L.Wood/publications/internet-drafts/draft-wood-term-modest-proposal/