Re: [therightkey] Defining CT-for-PKIX and CT-for-DNSSEC

Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org> Sun, 18 November 2012 01:24 UTC

Return-Path: <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
X-Original-To: therightkey@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: therightkey@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D820921F86C1 for <therightkey@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:24:10 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.565
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.565 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z+nt2ftUUiUi for <therightkey@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from hoffman.proper.com (IPv6.Hoffman.Proper.COM [IPv6:2605:8e00:100:41::81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA7E21F84A1 for <therightkey@ietf.org>; Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [10.20.30.102] (50-0-66-243.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com [50.0.66.243]) (authenticated bits=0) by hoffman.proper.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id qAI1O50Q061708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 17 Nov 2012 18:24:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from paul.hoffman@vpnc.org)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\))
From: Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@vpnc.org>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1211171804460.21843@bofh.nohats.ca>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:24:07 -0800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <208851A7-84FB-4BF9-ACCE-18A931B146F6@vpnc.org>
References: <CCCD7038.36484%carl@redhoundsoftware.com> <alpine.LFD.2.02.1211171804460.21843@bofh.nohats.ca>
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499)
Cc: therightkey@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [therightkey] Defining CT-for-PKIX and CT-for-DNSSEC
X-BeenThere: therightkey@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: <therightkey.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/therightkey>, <mailto:therightkey-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/therightkey>
List-Post: <mailto:therightkey@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:therightkey-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/therightkey>, <mailto:therightkey-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:24:11 -0000

On Nov 17, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Carl Wallace wrote:
> 
>> Who is intended to be able to contribute to the log?  It seems like for
>> this to provide the desired visibility, any client should be able to.  For
>> CT, at least, I thought this was not to be the case.
> 
> How do you authenticate that?

The submission includes the whole DNSSEC chain to the root, similar to what it does for CT-for-PKIX.

> You cannot use the DS/DNSKEY for
> authentication because then the CT audit log is useless to detect
> compromises.

The purpose is to detect inclusion of DS keys that are not valid to the end host, not to detect "compromise". You have been following this mailing list, yes?

> And you cannot say "The CA industry" either, which is the answer for the
> CT-PKIX version.

OK, so maybe you haven't been following the mailing list or reading the draft. In the CT-for-PKIX proposal, individuals can submit their own certificate.

> If you make CT-DNSSEC go through the CA industry, it
> will cost $10/year or more to get in the audit log.

Thank you, Strawman McBogusArg!

--Paul Hoffman