Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ordering requirements to match current practice (#169)
mrex@sap.com (Martin Rex) Tue, 12 May 2015 22:38 UTC
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To: ryan-ietftls@sleevi.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 00:38:38 +0200
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From: mrex@sap.com
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Cc: tls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ordering requirements to match current practice (#169)
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Ryan Sleevi wrote: > On Tue, May 12, 2015 2:38 pm, Martin Rex wrote: >> One of the worst problems in your proposed text is the replacment >> of the term "self-signed [...] root certificate authority" with >> two bogus occurrences of the term "trust anchor". >> >> Trust anchor is a _strictly_ local concept, so this term >> MUST NOT be used in the description of the TLS Certificate PDU. >> >> self-signed root certificate authority is a simple technical term, >> that does *NOT* imply trust by any party. > > You will find the reasoning already provided in past messages for why this > proposed terminology change. "self-signed root certificate authority" is, > unquestionably, NOT a simple technical term (considering how many times it > has confused people, I should think this obvious). Then add the line of text from rfc5280 or X.509 that explain what a self-signed CA certificate is. > > Please do re-read the > message is which I provided the justification for this change, and > hopefully provide counter-factual evidence if there is any. I is *IMPOSSIBLE* to justify the use of "trust anchor" here. > > Considering that "trust anchor" is a term extensively used in RFC 5280, rfc5280 explicitly describes "trust anchor" to have only a *local* meaning! see rfc5280, section 6.2 (which I previously quoted). https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280#section-6.2 > > I also fail to understand your objection about it being a "local only" > concept. This is entirely in line with the current language where you can > omit certificates that you know your peer does not need. The Certificate handshake message PDU is produced by one TLS peer (sender) and consumed/interpreted by the *OTHER* TLS peer. But the concept of a trust anchor is a thoroughly local issue, so the use of the terminology for the TLS Certificate PDU is provably incorrect for at least one TLS peer. -Martin
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Andrei Popov
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Salz, Rich
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ben Laurie
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Watson Ladd
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Dave Garrett
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Ryan Sleevi
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Fabrice Gautier
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Brian Smith
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Yoav Nir
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Viktor Dukhovni
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Peter Gutmann
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Santosh Chokhani
- Re: [TLS] [tls13-spec] relax certificate_list ord… Martin Rex