[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings vanishing (was: Re: Does it exist? (RE: [nmrg] Re: [OPSAWG]Re: [ainetops] Re: AIOPS Side Meeting [Was Re: Agenda for the Side Meeting: AI-Driven Network) Operations

[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings vanishing (was: Re: Does it exist? (RE: [nmrg] Re: [OPSAWG]Re: [ainetops] Re: AIOPS Side Meeting [Was Re: Agenda for the Side Meeting: AI-Driven Network) Operations — IETF 126, Fri 24 Jul, 08:00 CEST])

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Fri, 24 July 2026 16:30 UTC

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2026 18:30:09 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Nicolas Giard <nick@staff.ietf.org>
Message-ID: <amOTEaeqppHHRxw9@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <BEXP281MB00556110DF8A81146F816D4387C12@BEXP281MB0055.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> <D310AD16-5C3D-4333-BFDF-7442F2ECD6CC@gmail.com> <amCZzyHEivTzFJxe@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <001c01dd1b3e$43d8b1e0$cb8a15a0$@clemm.org> <amMXsTryXyACC8Sw@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <CAL_px1NpHBntkDWLsojqhEZSsW1sF3fVPRuXoEhyDJdZJKPdgg@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: [Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings vanishing (was: Re: Does it exist? (RE: [nmrg] Re: [OPSAWG]Re: [ainetops] Re: AIOPS Side Meeting [Was Re: Agenda for the Side Meeting: AI-Driven Network) Operations — IETF 126, Fri 24 Jul, 08:00 CEST])
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/KKSkTFOVkF1gFRnt8Wt669uWZLY>

On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 04:03:58AM -0400, Nicolas Giard wrote:
> We are completely replacing the side meetings website with our own solution
> after this meeting.
> The current website relies on a 3rd party service that has many issues and
> can be unreliable at times.

Great

> I would advise against using the JSON link you posted, as it is an outdated
> copy from 3 weeks ago used for testing.
> Side meetings have been added, removed or moved since then.

Ok. This was what i got when asking support@ietf.org

Cheers
    Toerless
> 
> Nick
> 
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 3:43 AM Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> 
> > This is the second time we are seeing a side meeting WHILE IT IS GOING ON
> > to vanish from
> > sidemeetings.ietf.org. Yesterday we had the same effect during "Agent
> > Operations" - and it started
> > to show up again after the end of the side meeting.
> >
> > It kinda makes joining late difficult.
> >
> > So there is something strangely broken i think in the
> > sidemeetings.ietf.org web page logic...
> >
> > I've added this as an issue on:
> >
> > https://github.com/ietf-tools/sidemeetings/issues/5
> >
> > Also. To look up side meetings as if you where an AI agent, use the json,
> > that is always ocrrect it seems:
> >
> > https://github.com/ietf-tools/sidemeetings/blob/v1/past-meetings/126.json
> >
> > Cheers
> >     Toerless
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 09:30:11AM +0200, Alexander Clemm wrote:
> > > Hallo Toerless
> > > I do not see this AINETOPS / AIOPS side meeting in the list of side
> > meetings - was this a public side meeting, did it actually take place?
> > > I see another meeting "Agent Ops" that sounds related taking place
> > yesterday afternoon?
> > > Thanks
> > > --- Alex
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2026 12:22 PM
> > > To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
> > > Cc: Roland.Schott@telekom.de; danvoyerwork@gmail.com; ainetops@ietf.org;
> > nmop@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nmrg@irtf.org
> > > Subject: [nmrg] Re: [OPSAWG]Re: [ainetops] Re: AIOPS Side Meeting [Was
> > Re: Agenda for the Side Meeting: AI-Driven Network Operations — IETF 126,
> > Fri 24 Jul, 08:00 CEST]
> > >
> > > [adding NMRG]
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mahesh
> > >
> > > Yes, indeed, NMRG meeting starting at 9AM, so lets try to get the most
> > out of the first hour of our side-meeting at 8AM. There are a couple of
> > documents proposed/discussed for the NMRG meeting including yours truly
> > draft-cxxx-nmrg-ai4ibn-00 that should be also of interest to folks
> > interested in AINETOPS.
> > >
> > > Even more so, similar to how NMRG work product (RFCs)  was a
> > justification in support of chartering ANIMA (by Benoit back then), such
> > work in NMRG could equally support justifying AINETOPS - or help it to
> > scope. And that's definitely also a question i would like to raise in NMRG:
> > >
> > > "which of the stuff here in NMRG do you see of interest to you (when you
> > are an operator
> > >  specifically) to be brought to the IETF, specifically a group scoped
> > such as proposed for  AINETOPS".
> > >
> > > So maybe we'll get even more time and interest in the topic, even if
> > some of of it will be in NMRG on friday. But there are a lot of operator
> > participants in there.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >    Toerless
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 12:02:17PM +0200, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote:
> > > > <html class="apple-mail-supports-explicit-dark-mode"><head><meta
> > > > http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
> > > > charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Hi Dan, et
> > > > al,<div><br></div><div>Based on talking to quite a few of you, there
> > > > is clearly a lot of interest in having the meeting. We will therefore
> > > > go ahead and have the meeting.</div><div><br></div><div>A few have
> > > > indicated a conflict starting at 9 am. I expect that we will start
> > > > losing the quorum by that time. So participants, should plan on
> > > > getting a few core things sorted out in the first hour itself. I will
> > > > hang around after the first hour.</div><div><br></div><div>Look
> > > > forward to seeing you all on
> > > > Friday.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers.</div><div><br
> > > > id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Mahesh
> > > > Jethanandani<div>mjethanandani@gmail.com</div></div><div
> > > > dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 22, 2026, at 9:31 AM,
> > > > Roland.Schott@telekom.de wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote
> > > > type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
> > > >
> > > > <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService,
> > > > -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
> > > > color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Hi Dan,</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto,
> > > > Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> > > > <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos,
> > > > Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica,
> > > > sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> I want to meet
> > > > with Mahesh to clarify, if I can support.</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto,
> > > > Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> > > > <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos,
> > > > Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica,
> > > > sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> In case community
> > > > has interest we will find a way to run it.</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto,
> > > > Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
> > > > <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos,
> > > > Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica,
> > > > sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Best Regards</div>
> > > > <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService,
> > > > -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
> > > > color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" style="font-family:
> > > > Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica,
> > > > sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> Roland&nbsp;</div>
> > > > <div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService,
> > > > -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;
> > > > color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div
> > > > id="ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line"
> > > > data-applydefaultfontstyles="true" style="font-family: Aptos,
> > > > Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto, Arial, Helvetica,
> > > > sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system, Roboto,
> > > > Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <br> </div> </div>
> > > > <div style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_MSFontService, -apple-system,
> > > > Roboto, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0,
> > > > 0, 0);" id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature" dir="ltr"> </div> <div
> > > > id="mail-editor-reference-message-container"
> > > > class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
> > > > <div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
> > > > <hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;"> <div
> > > > id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri,
> > > > sans-serif;"><b>Von:</b> Dan Voyer IETF
> > > > &lt;danvoyerwork@gmail.com&gt;<br>
> > > > <b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, Juli 22, 2026 9:26 AM<br> <b>An:</b> Mahesh
> > > > Jethanandani &lt;mjethanandani@gmail.com&gt;<br>
> > > > <b>Cc:</b> ainetops@ietf.org &lt;ainetops@ietf.org&gt;; nmop@ietf.org
> > > > &lt;nmop@ietf.org&gt;; opsawg &lt;opsawg@ietf.org&gt;<br>
> > > > <b>Betreff:</b> [ainetops] Re: [OPSAWG]AIOPS Side Meeting [Was Re:
> > > > Agenda for the Side Meeting: AI-Driven Network Operations — IETF 126,
> > > > Fri 24 Jul, 08:00 CEST]</span> <div style="font-family: Calibri,
> > > > sans-serif;">&nbsp;</div> </div> <div dir="ltr">H Mahesh,</div> <div
> > > > dir="ltr"><br> </div> <div dir="ltr">Is the side-meeting going or did
> > > > you shut it down since no one took charge ?</div> <div dir="ltr"><br>
> > > > </div> <div dir="ltr">And, perhaps since you proposed that
> > > > side-meeting, is there any possibility that you run it ?&nbsp;</div>
> > > > <div dir="ltr"><br> </div> <div dir="ltr">Dan</div> <br> <div
> > > > dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 19, 2026 at 9:08 PM Mahesh
> > > > Jethanandani &lt;<a
> > > > href="mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&gt;
> > > > wrote:</div> <blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
> > > > padding-left: 1ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);"> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote">Hi All,</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote">When I
> > > > proposed the AIOPS side meeting, I asked if anyone was willing to step
> > > > up and fill the roles needed to run it. To date, no one has
> > > > volunteered for any of them. I understand the turnaround has been
> > > > short, but without these roles  filled, the meeting has no one driving
> > > > it and won't be worth holding.</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote">If you're a
> > > > would-be proponent and want to see AIOPS work happen in the IETF, this
> > > > is the moment to step up:</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote">Take charge
> > > > of the agenda</div> <div class="gmail_quote">Work the draft of a
> > > > problem statement</div> <div class="gmail_quote">Own the pen on the
> > > > charter text</div> <div class="gmail_quote">Show up and demonstrate
> > > > real interest</div> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br> </div>
> > > > <div class="gmail_quote">If a core group hasn't formed by Wednesday,
> > > > July 22, I will cancel the side meeting.</div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote">Cheers,</div>
> > > > <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <blockquote> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote">On Jul 13, 2026, at 9:16 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani
> > > > &lt;<a href="mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com"
> > > > target="_blank">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div> <div
> > > > dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> Volunteers needed to help
> > > > run the meeting</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align:
> > > > left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> ------------------------------------------</div>
> > > > <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> A few
> > > > operational roles are still open for running this session -
> > > > separate</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> from chairing the proposed working group itself.
> > > > Room capacity is limited;</div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> preference for in-room
> > > > seating will be given to those who take one of</div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> these
> > > > on:</div> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> <br> </div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; - Co-chair
> > > > (checklist owner): tracks the Part B checklist live so the</div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; &nbsp; co-chair can stay focused on the room</div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; - Co-chair (clock &amp; consensus): runs the clock at each
> > > > agenda-block</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; &nbsp; boundary and calls rough consensus
> > > > alongside the co-chair</div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; - Notes-pad owner:
> > > > opens a shared pad before the meeting and captures</div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; &nbsp; the roll call, deliverables, and objections live</div>
> > > > <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; - Jabber/WebEx monitor: relays remote comments and hands into
> > > > the room</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; &nbsp; queue</div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; - Breakout group
> > > > leads (4 needed): one each for YANG data models,</div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; &nbsp; protocol extensions, MCP, and BCP/governance, to keep
> > > > the 09:10</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; &nbsp; deliverables breakout focused and
> > > > report back</div> <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; - Charter text owners (2 needed): own the
> > > > charter text draft and</div> <div class="gmail_quote"
> > > > style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;"> &nbsp; &nbsp; drive it
> > > > toward consensus, on-list before the next meeting and through</div>
> > > > <div class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;">
> > > > &nbsp; &nbsp; to a final version after</div> </blockquote> <div
> > > > dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div dir="auto"
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color:
> > > > rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> Mahesh Jethanandani</div> <div dir="auto"
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color:
> > > > rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <a href="mailto:mjethanandani@gmail.com"
> > > > target="_blank">mjethanandani@gmail.com</a></div>
> > > > <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica;
> > > > font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div dir="ltr"
> > > > class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left; text-transform: none;
> > > > font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br>
> > > > </div> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote" style="text-align: left;
> > > > text-transform: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; color:
> > > > rgb(0, 0, 0);"> <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br>
> > > > <br> </div> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_quote"><br> </div> <div
> > > > class="gmail_quote">_______________________________________________<br
> > > > > OPSAWG mailing list -- <a href="mailto:opsawg@ietf.org"
> > > > target="_blank">opsawg@ietf.org</a><br>
> > > > To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:opsawg-leave@ietf.org"
> >
> > > > target="_blank"> opsawg-leave@ietf.org</a></div> </blockquote> </div>
> > > > </div>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > </div></blockquote></div></body></html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OPSAWG mailing list -- opsawg@ietf.org To unsubscribe send an email
> > to
> > > > opsawg-leave@ietf.org
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---
> > > tte@cs.fau.de
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nmrg mailing list -- nmrg@irtf.org
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to nmrg-leave@irtf.org
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > tte@cs.fau.de
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
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> > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/

-- 
---
tte@cs.fau.de

[Tools-discuss] tools-discuss: side meetings vani… 'Toerless Eckert'
[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings … Nicolas Giard
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] tools-discuss:… Marc Blanchet
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] tools-discuss:… Marc Blanchet
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] tools-discuss:… Jay Daley
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] Re: tools-disc… Grace Rachmany
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] Re: tools-disc… Nicolas Giard
[Tools-discuss] Re: [126attendees] Re: tools-disc… Mirja Kuehlewind
[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings … Toerless Eckert
[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings … Yaron Sheffer
[Tools-discuss] Re: tools-discuss: side meetings … Nicolas Giard