Re: [Tools-discuss] Why do we even have text formats any more?

Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com> Wed, 28 July 2021 16:00 UTC

Return-Path: <housley@vigilsec.com>
X-Original-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5AC43A15BD for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:00:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.897
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AhnlTzkGDPKY for <tools-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41F6B3A15BA for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D07D2300BE8 for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:00:33 -0400 (EDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net
Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id lZYtRTOorikS for <tools-discuss@ietf.org>; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-141-156-161-153.washdc.fios.verizon.net [141.156.161.153]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 35984300231; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.21\))
From: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
In-Reply-To: <19431.1627486962@localhost>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 12:00:31 -0400
Cc: Tools Team Discussion <tools-discuss@ietf.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <D1565C2D-A409-4A18-AA80-B191012FB348@vigilsec.com>
References: <4d70a1ac-a275-420a-83f6-99dfd5b5385c@www.fastmail.com> <19431.1627486962@localhost>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.21)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tools-discuss/baMsDEV_alVcniUb8iQ9qi057yE>
Subject: Re: [Tools-discuss] Why do we even have text formats any more?
X-BeenThere: tools-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF Tools Discussion <tools-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tools-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tools-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tools-discuss>, <mailto:tools-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:00:39 -0000

Others have already said how important diff is to their work.  Review team members, especially checking whether previous comments were addressed, use diff heavily.  I have a script to run diff locally when I am not online.  The online diff and my script depend on text files.

Russ


> On Jul 28, 2021, at 11:42 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
> 
> Signed PGP part
> 
> Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:
>> I realize that this might be a little inflammatory as far as subjects
>> go, but bear with me.
> 
>> There are probably a few narrow cases where rendering plain text is
>> better than HTML.
> 
> The time when it's nice to have actual .txt files is when writing code, and
> one needs to search for, and then copy and pasting bits of requirement into the code.
> But, if I'm really working on such a document, I can run xml2rfc -o text myself.
> 
>> Here's an alternative: style the HTML so that it looks like the text.  I tried this and it worked shockingly well.
> 
>> Repo: https://github.com/martinthomson/rfc-txt-html
>> Demo: https://martinthomson.github.io/rfc-txt-html/diff.html
> 
>> This isn't perfect, but it seems pretty good to me.
> 
> I agree: it looks great.
> I also agree that we should obsolete the htmlizer.
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
>           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
> 
>