Re: [Txauth] GNAP it is

[Dick Hardt <[e-mail]>]

You stated "I don’t believe we should add a proposed pronunciation to the
charter"

Which sounds like a concern with putting it in the charter. If you now
don't care about putting it in the charter, then we can end the discussion.

I missed your preference for a hard G. Nice to know we are aligned on our
opinions there!


On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:23 AM Justin Richer <[e-mail]> wrote:

> I’m really confused as to what the problem here is:
>
> I’ve said that I prefer it with a hard “g” and will likely continue to
> read it like that in my head. I have also stated that I don’t think putting
> it in the charter will help people people “fix” the pronunciation. This is
> my opinion on the matter, which I have stated and now been made to defend a
> number of times.
>
> None of this stops anyone from putting pronunciation guides into the
> charter or eventual specs if people think it’s worth it. I’m not the only
> voice here, and I’ve said it doesn’t really matter to me because I don’t
> think it will actually help.
>
> Therefore if it really is that important to you, and the chairs and ADs
> agree to the charter text change, then just do it.
>
> Can you help me understand what else you’re looking for from me?
>
>  — Justin
>
> On Jun 16, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Dick Hardt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I think precision in communication matters, so yes, I think it matters.
> How will we pronounce it in our in-person or virtual meetings?
>
> While I agree that we need to anticipate people will mispronounce it, we
> can inform them of the suggested pronunciation.
>
> While putting the pronunciation in the charter does not solve the issue,
> it is a starting point. I have added the suggested pronunciation to XAuth.
>
> What is your concern with putting it in the charter? Why would you not
> want to minimize miscommunication?
>
> FWIW: I think that guh-nap is a better pronunciation choice as it makes it
> clear it is not spelled "NAP"
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:44 AM Justin Richer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> My concern on the pronunciation remains, and I don’t think putting a
>> pronunciation in the charter, which hardly anyone will read again after a
>> couple weeks from now, is going to address it. That’s why I think we should
>> just get used to hearing it multiple ways, which you’ve agreed with. I
>> personally think it’s just a problem we’ll have to live with, and that was
>> one of the concerns I had with the name.
>>
>> But really, does it matter? I don’t think it does.
>>
>>  — Justin
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Dick Hardt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> It seems strange that you now call addressing the concerns you raised
>> "silly".
>>
>> While there is no confusion in written communication with GNAP, there
>> clearly will be in verbal communication.
>>
>> Starting off with a suggested pronunciation looks to me to nip a
>> significant amount of the confusion in the bud.
>>
>> We can deal with it now, or deal with it later, or it can be a source of
>> confusion and communication friction forever.
>>
>> Why not just pick one pronunciation and move on?
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 7:42 AM Justin Richer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t believe we should add a proposed pronunciation to the charter.
>>> It seems silly to focus on this so much.
>>>
>>>  — Justin
>>>
>>> On Jun 15, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Dick Hardt <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree we should be prepared for both. Can we agree that we can be
>>> consistent? Personally I don't care which we choose -- I only care that we
>>> choose one.
>>>
>>> I was working to address the concern that you (Justin) had brought up:
>>>
>>> This is ok, but it has a couple downsides. The pronunciation of a hard
>>> “g” or not is going to potentially be confusing, as is the fact that it
>>> looks like it’s part of the GNU project because of that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 1:56 PM Justin Richer <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Mike, in that we should get used to answering to both.
>>>>
>>>> In my head, it reads with a hard “G”, at least partially because of the
>>>> Smurfs video’s legacy.
>>>>
>>>>  — Justin
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2020, at 3:38 PM, Mike Jones <
>>>> Michael.Jones=[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don’t care a lot one way or the other.  My main point is that no
>>>> matter what guidance we give, many people are likely to pronounce the “G”.
>>>> If we try to insist on it being silent, we should get used to the fact that
>>>> we’ll probably be hearing both pronunciations.
>>>>
>>>>                                                        -- Mike
>>>>
>>>> P.S.  Thanks for the Smurfs link, Vittorio!
>>>>
>>>> *From:* [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 12:25 PM
>>>> *To:* 'Dick Hardt' <[e-mail]>; 'Peter Saint-Andre' <
>>>> [e-mail]>
>>>> *Cc:* Mike Jones <[e-mail]>; 'Jared Jennings' <
>>>> [e-mail]>; 'Amanjeev Sethi' <[e-mail]>; 'Fabien
>>>> Imbault' <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>>>> *Subject:* RE: [Txauth] GNAP it is
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps not to be taken too seriously, but here’s prior art on GNAP
>>>> pronunciation.
>>>> As Leif mentioned few mails ago, “GNAP” appeared on the Smurfs comic
>>>> and was reprised in a cartoon episode as well.
>>>> You’ll find few examples around 3:30
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEl8IBv98vg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0GVfFeNl4M1OhHKE7FfyCqKTDJI960mU-ai8hLqMO8A_qzCS-WBJgPbpQ
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Txauth <[e-mail]> *On Behalf Of *Dick Hardt
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 15, 2020 12:18 PM
>>>> *To:* Peter Saint-Andre <[e-mail]>
>>>> *Cc:* Mike Jones <[e-mail]>; Jared Jennings <
>>>> [e-mail]>; Amanjeev Sethi <[e-mail]>; Fabien
>>>> Imbault <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Txauth] GNAP it is
>>>>
>>>> Checking in again on pronunciation.
>>>>
>>>> Mike: do you still have concerns with a silent 'G'?
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else have concerns?
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to nip pronunciation confusion in the bud by having the
>>>> recommended pronunciation in the charter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ᐧ
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:23 PM Peter Saint-Andre <[e-mail]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Looks like we were caught gnapping. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> OK, that's the last of my snarky comments, let's get to work!
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> On 6/7/20 2:09 PM, Dick Hardt wrote:
>>>> > It is if you are familiar with any of the GNU projects.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.gnu.org/gnu/pronunciation.en.html
>>>> >
>>>> > A quick search on the internet has the "normal" pronunciation of "gnu"
>>>> > to have a silent 'g'.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.howtopronounce.com/gnu
>>>> > https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/gnu
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ᐧ
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:51 PM Mike Jones <
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>> > <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >     I had assumed Guh-Nap – parallel to the pronunciation of GNU.  I
>>>> >     think that’s the most natural way to read it.____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                                                            -- Mike____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >     *From:* Txauth <[e-mail]
>>>> >     <mailto:[e-mail]>> *On Behalf Of *Dick Hardt
>>>> >     *Sent:* Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:45 PM
>>>> >     *To:* Amanjeev Sethi <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>>>> >     *Cc:* Fabien Imbault <[e-mail]
>>>> >     <mailto:[e-mail]>>; Jared Jennings
>>>> >     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>;
>>>> >     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>>> >     *Subject:* Re: [Txauth] GNAP it is____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >     Anyone have objection to the recommended pronunciation being the
>>>> >     English word "nap", as in "gnaw"?____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >     If not, then we could add a pronunciation recommendation to the
>>>> >     Charter.____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >     ᐧ____
>>>> >
>>>> >     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >     On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 8:03 AM Amanjeev Sethi <[e-mail]
>>>> >     <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:____
>>>> >
>>>> >         Vote for 'G' silent, as in 'lagnappe' ;)____
>>>> >
>>>> >         __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >         On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, at 10:52 AM, Jared Jennings wrote:____
>>>> >
>>>> >             I vote for G silent. For the reason it's most common to
>>>> >             pronounce, especially for those not familiar with open
>>>> >             source usages.____
>>>> >
>>>> >             __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >             On Sat, Jun 6, 2020, 08:45 Dick Hardt <
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>> >             <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 The obvious pronunciation choices are:____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 nap (silent g as in gnaw)____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 guh-nap (as in the GNU OS
>>>> >                 - https://www.gnu.org/gnu/pronunciation.en..html
>>>> >                 <https://www.gnu.org/gnu/pronunciation.en.html>)____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 gee-nap (as in G-man - government man
>>>> >                 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-man)____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 ᐧ____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                 On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 1:34 AM Fabien Imbault
>>>> >                 <[e-mail]
>>>> >                 <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     So, let's adopt a GNAP! We can even come with a
>>>> >                     little mascot (a bit like go gopher) as imagined
>>>> >                     by http://elisegravel.com/blog/adopte-un-gnap/,
>>>> >                     loved by little Canadians :-) ____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                     Just to be sure, how do you recommand we pronounce
>>>> >                     it? ____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                     Looking forward to the next steps too.. ____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >                     Thxs____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     Fabien____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     --____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     Txauth mailing list____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>____
>>>> >
>>>> >                     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 --____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 Txauth mailing list____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>____
>>>> >
>>>> >                 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth____
>>>> >
>>>> >             -- ____
>>>> >
>>>> >             Txauth mailing list____
>>>> >
>>>> >             [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>____
>>>> >
>>>> >             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth____
>>>> >
>>>> >             __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >         __ __
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Txauth mailing list
>>>> [e-mail]
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/txauth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>