Re: [V3] RIPT BoF approved for IETF 107 - Draft charter below

["Asveren, Tolga" <[e-mail]>]

I certainly would be happy to share all the pain, agony etc… experienced during this still ongoing Odyssey, starting from Lotus Eaters.

I understand that the idea is to have HTTP based hourglass model but it would be really useful if at least some concepts/strategies can be plugged-in to other models. Honestly, I am not sure whether/how this would eb possible though but worth to give it a try IMHO.

Thanks,
Tolga

From: Jonathan Rosenberg <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:18 AM
To: Asveren, Tolga <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [V3] RIPT BoF approved for IETF 107 - Draft charter below

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Tolga -

Totally agree that pragmatic "this actually works" is crucial. This is why the following is called out in the charter:

The group will do its work in conjunction with active software
development efforts, so that implementation experience feeds directly
into protocol development.


I think your suggestion is a good one - that it is not just implementation of the protocol, but working on practical implementation into things like - I dont know, maybe Ribbon SBCs (hint hint) - and cloud services like amazon and google, to gain an understanding of what works.

Thx,
Jonathan R.

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 3:28 PM Asveren, Tolga <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Definitely interesting/useful concept in general if the end result indeed can deliver benefits on the following aspects: HA, load-balancing, auto-scaling, cloud-friendliness. Having said that, just “going HTTP” hardly would provide satisfactory results IMHO. The issues with Cloud/real tiem session (mis)match are usually due to the fact that the infrastructure is tailored for certain type of applications, i.e. for the lack of a better term “web applications”. Failover, service discovery, load balancing, message retransmission/back-off/circuit breaking, what is understood as HA etc… are all areas where a real time session application is currently a misfit. Yes, there are workarounds/various strategies but mostly painful/indirect/not complete.

I am optimistic that things can be made better but it really would help if we make sure that each strategic decision first goes through a detailed analysis in terms of its implementation/deployment implications/benefits -or lack of it-. This aspect is usually not considered as an integral part of protocol standardization but IMHO for this WG it should, as “making life easier” is one of the core goals. Furthermore, I would argue that following a modular approach -as much as possible- could be useful so that certain pieces can be plugged into the SIP/SDP world as well, e.g. HTTP encapsulated RTP if that happens to be the choice.

Thanks,
Tolga

From: V3 <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> On Behalf Of Jonathan Rosenberg
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 5:00 PM
To: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: Cullen Jennings (fluffy) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [V3] RIPT BoF approved for IETF 107 - Draft charter below

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Good news folks – RIPT bof was approved for IETF107 and we’ll be meeting. Goal is to try and get a WG formed. As such, charter discussion is in order. Cullen, myself and Justin worked a draft charter. Comments please:


This working group will standardize a protocol, capable of operating
atop HTTP/3, which supports real-time voice and video communications,
including signaling, media negotiation, and transmission of media
packets.

The primary rationale for this new protocol is to enable deployment of
real-time communications services on modern "cloud" systems. These
systems are built around HTTP, and for HTTP-based applications, they
enable load balancing, HA, auto-scaling, and so on. However, real-time
communications protocols are based on SIP and RTP, and they cannot take
advantage of these HTTP-based capabilities.

It is a non-goal of this working group to replicate all of SIP and its
many extensions into HTTP. The group will limit itself to supporting the
functionality in widespread actual usage today.

The protocol uses HTTP techniques for authentication and authorization
(notably OAuth), and requires hop by hop encryption (i.e., https). The
protocol will also allow for e2e media encryption, although keying is
out of scope, and is expected to be handled by other protocols such as
MLS. This extension will also utilize STIR for callerID.

This protocol should be implementable in browsers, thick desktop
clients, mobile apps and servers.

The group will standardize an extension to the baseline protocol that
automates the configuration necessary to achieve calling between on
organization which is a customer of the other (for example, enterprise
to service provider).

[OPEN ISSUE: Is P2P media in or out? If in, ICE or something else ?]

The group will do its work in conjunction with active software
development efforts, so that implementation experience feeds directly
into protocol development.

The group will coordinate with the Webtranport, QUIC, HTTPbis and STIR
working groups.

Milestones:

Dec 2020: Submit baseline protocol to IESG
Mar 2021: Submit autoconfiguration protocol to IESG

Thx,
Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan Rosenberg
CTO and Head of AI, Five9


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